ELO is flawed for this game

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BusterVA
Posts: 21
Joined: 29 March 2019, 17:30

ELO is flawed for this game

Post by BusterVA »

First, I don't really care about ELO ratings. I am just here to play. But that said, they do seem flawed in this game.

For games where skill and strategy are concerned it makes sense. But Farkle is almost entirely luck. Total dumb luck. The level of strategy is incredibly low. For instance, I have seen people beat me very quickly with a few rounds with more than 2000 points each. Yes it happens. That is fine and I get it. But when losing to say a new player who gets really lucky, my ELO plummets. One time it dropped 25 after one loss. I won the next game against someone with a similar ELO and it went up 7. So for every loss I need to win 3 or 4 games to break even. On a game that is all fluke that seems pretty ridiculous. But I have also lost to people with an ELO of 0, and mine goes down maybe 10. Sometimes it just appears to make no sense.

I am here for a few fun games, so honestly I don't really care - but ELO essentially is a luck meter for this game, and less an indication of skill.
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ufm
Posts: 1416
Joined: 06 January 2017, 08:38

Re: ELO is flawed for this game

Post by ufm »

BusterVA wrote: 06 November 2023, 20:30 First, I don't really care about ELO ratings.
Well, if you don't care, why do you post this?
BusterVA wrote: 06 November 2023, 20:30 ELO essentially is a luck meter for this game, and less an indication of skill.
I agree ELO rating is not suitable for luck-based games, but currently there is no better alternative for BGA.
BusterVA
Posts: 21
Joined: 29 March 2019, 17:30

Re: ELO is flawed for this game

Post by BusterVA »

Well, if you don't care, why do you post this?
Because if the game uses it, it should work as intended or be a fair representation of what it is.

I have been lucky and destroyed opponents due to crazy lucky rolls winning some matches in a matter of only a few turns. This clearly does not mean I am better than them, just got super lucky, yet it results in their ELO crashing and mine skyrocketing. On the flip side I have had the opposite happen.

On games that have a sizable "skill" component the score starts to make sense. For games like Farkle especially, it really should not even be used. Perhaps just display win/loss counts. At least that would be accurate.
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ufm
Posts: 1416
Joined: 06 January 2017, 08:38

Re: ELO is flawed for this game

Post by ufm »

BusterVA wrote: 23 November 2023, 20:27
Well, if you don't care, why do you post this?
Because if the game uses it, it should work as intended or be a fair representation of what it is.

I have been lucky and destroyed opponents due to crazy lucky rolls winning some matches in a matter of only a few turns. This clearly does not mean I am better than them, just got super lucky, yet it results in their ELO crashing and mine skyrocketing. On the flip side I have had the opposite happen.

On games that have a sizable "skill" component the score starts to make sense. For games like Farkle especially, it really should not even be used. Perhaps just display win/loss counts. At least that would be accurate.
Rating is an assumption, not an absolute standard. Have you heard of Elo farming?
Of course ratings in luck-based games are much more swingy, but higher rating does not essentially mean better skill.
Also, win/loss counts are even more inaccurate. Just compare 2p vs others, or win against a novice vs (relatively) an expert.
Again, currently there is no better alternative for BGA.
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Strode
Posts: 101
Joined: 18 April 2020, 04:49

Re: ELO is flawed for this game

Post by Strode »

They're not going to create a new ELO system for lower luck games.

As mentioned, you can just ignore ELO. The issue is, should those who like having ELO for this game be forced to follow your preferences?
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