Is An Anti-Deadlock Rule Needed?

[FSKFSK]

Someone pointed out a possible degenerate scenario. One player holds 2 pearls and 3 gold, and all the cards in the market require a pearl. That player can deadlock the game by refusing to ever buy anything.

Suggested improvement for this degenerate case: If 20 turns pass without either player buying a card, everyone puts all their gems in the bag.

Has this happened to anyone?

[Oami]

This sounds so unsportsmanlike that maybe they both deserve to lose.

The one doing this is obviously losing (otherwise they wouldn't do this) and the other has played bad enough to allow this to happen.

[FSKFSK]

It could happen without the blocked person playing badly. Some people hoard gold and pearls. If your opponent takes gold and pearls at every opportunity and never spends them, you might only have the opportunity to spend 2-3 pearls and gold before they lock them down.

[OwnerOfTheIronThrone]

First of all I wanna clarify that I informed my opponent that I will start buying cards in a couple of moves. He was aware of it and decided to leave anyway just moments later. The only reason I stalled the game for couple moves at all, is to prove that there is anti-deadlock rule needed, I don't think I did it in an opressive way.

https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=488313491

On move 65 we reach position where if choose not to buy any cards, I prevent my opponent from playing the game. The progress bar is stuck at 40% so he can't even surrender. All the cards either cost pearls or cost at least 5 more resources than he produces.

This is 2nd time I pulled it off in less than 10 games irl and on bga. And there was 1 more time where I am almost sure I would have been able to do it if I wanted. This gives me to more then 30% consistency, which is insanely high for how absurd this position is.

[OwnerOfTheIronThrone]

https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=488335054

there you go, another game where at some point I was able to lock opponent away from playing

[Karumah]

I've found that most games that end up on BGA have an issue like this. I call them "fatal flaws" as they basically kill the game. Most of them are simply design flaws that give one player an extreme advantage or cause an auto-win scenario, but this one is particularly egregious. Not sure why game companies aren't catching these in testing (I suspect they aren't putting that much time or money into testing, especially if they're Kickstarting, since they don't care about anything but front end sales), but the worst offenders invariably end up on BGA as sales drop. Unfortunately, since this is the case, I wouldn't expect a fix. Not many companies care about fixing their games that are already out the door. You hardly ever see rules fixes or errata anymore.

[Bread4Ducks]

INot sure why game companies aren't catching these in testing

In a real life play this scenario is irrelevant, so I'm not surprised testers didn't catch this. There's no stalemate in this game, so if one player pulls this trick they'll have to eventually spend a pearl or gold to actually let the game reach a conclusion.

In real life people will get bored very quickly and end the loop, that isn't the case on BGA (especially for turn based) but the designers wouldn't have been thinking about BGA when they made the game.

[Karumah]

Perhaps. It still seems like hoarding these until absolutely forced to spend them is the way to win. And with so many cards requiring pearls, it can create quite an advantage. It's a way to control the game that isn't fun for the opponent.

[OwnerOfTheIronThrone]

I've found that most games that end up on BGA have an issue like this. I call them "fatal flaws" as they basically kill the game. Most of them are simply design flaws that give one player an extreme advantage or cause an auto-win scenario, but this one is particularly egregious.

I am really curious what other games have such issues. I was under an impression that this is the only game like that. Is it any of the games I have played?

[Bread4Ducks]

Perhaps. It still seems like hoarding these until absolutely forced to spend them is the way to win. And with so many cards requiring pearls, it can create quite an advantage. It's a way to control the game that isn't fun for the opponent.

Ultimately if you're hoarding the pearls then you can't buy any cards that need pearls yourself. I suppose you could hoard until there's a pearl card that you really want but it isn't that big an advantage to me, until a pearl card is drawn you're both choosing from the non-pearl cards, so it's a level playing field and the non-hoarder will still be able to buy non-pearl cards in the meantime.