Hanabi — kicking out active players?

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Joined: 28 October 2019, 08:23

Hanabi — kicking out active players?

Post by sjpkcb » 28 October 2019, 08:47

After playing many games of Hanabi with a perfect reputation, I have recently suffered an enormous drop due to twice being kicked out of games when not far into negative time. In neither case was I not making a good-faith effort to play — in the first instance, there was a newish player who didn't speak English who apparently started to play randomly, and was putting us at risk of our third bomb. We tried find out from him whether he was trying to lose or was just confused — and during this conversation, as soon as my time became negative, he kicked me out.

This was a newish player; perhaps he didn't understand the etiquette. The second example, though, was with an experienced player who, once our game started to go badly, wanted to agree to quit; since I think it's more honorable to play the game out, I tried to argue we should keep going — and, again, once I was in time trouble, he kicked me out. Certainly he knew that I wasn't abandoning the game or anything, and presumably he knew the reputation hit this would cause me — but he ruthlessly did it anyway.

Now I quite understand that timely play is a virtue, and doubtless I deserve some censure for the fact that I let my time become negative; but looking at my reputation it states that I irresponsibly QUIT two recent games, which is simply not the case.

So here are my questions—
1) Shouldn't this wording be more accurate? (I did not quit.)
2) Hanabi is a cooperative game, and its incentives should encourage good-faith cooperation. But isn't playing 'gotcha' with the timer is the opposite of that?
3) Similarly, what should one do once in time trouble — play hastily, thus hurting EVERYBODY (it's a cooperative game, remember), or play carefully, thus putting ourselves at risk of a ruthless every-man-for-himselfer? It's a prisoner's dilemma.

[crossposted from community discussions forum — not sure which is the right place]

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Re: Hanabi — kicking out active players?

Post by Raal » 28 October 2019, 10:14

I consider time as not only a virtue, a part of the rule in site (and games.)
We have rights to use thinking time as us like even if to argue,
but in fact, you were stopping the whole game, so I think you should do minimal movement.

Time span is set by statitics of the games on BGA, so it means that many players can play normally on that pase.
If you can't follow the pase, you can ask to change time setting from 'fast' to 'slow' before joining game.

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Re: Hanabi — kicking out active players?

Post by tchobello » 28 October 2019, 13:26

1- it's not a big deal.

2- It might happen that a newbie makes mistakes. That's part of the game if you allow them to join.

3- when someone ask for quitting the game, it's useless to try to convince him to stay. Don't waste your time & give him a red thumb.

More over, I can't bear table talk when playing Hanabi.
The game needs people to be focused & should be played fast.
You have plenty of time to discuss after the game.

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Re: Hanabi — kicking out active players?

Post by sjpkcb » 28 October 2019, 18:19

motchouli — I agree that timely play is a virtue, so I can see the argument that I deserve some demerit for falling behind. But I don't think I deserve the drastic reputation hit I suffered, or the label as somebody who quits, just for falling a little behind in good faith. And once you do fall behind, it can be tough to dig yourself out again, since you are still are duty-bound to give each turn serious thought so as not to screw up. (You can't play recklessly in a cooperative game; that would hurt the others too.)

tchobello — yes, new players make mistakes; but in this game we had a newish (but not brand-new) player who only made small mistakes at first, but then towards the end suddenly went haywire, so we were trying to figure out what was going on. As for letting people quit, I see your point! But it's not like I was holding up the game to have a long chat argument; most of the time troubles came from trying to figure out best play in a tricky situation, which takes time! We were nearly done, only a couple turns left, so it's not like the other player needed to get on with his life — he intentionally punished me out of nastiness, as best I can tell.

In general, I don't see why, for a cooperative game like Hanabi, the system should empower people to play in an unfriendly and uncooperative way.

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Re: Hanabi — kicking out active players?

Post by Romain672 » 02 November 2019, 21:51

You haven't that 'penalty' for specific game, but for many of them.

Just your profile says that you was out of time on 8 games out of 31, which is a lot. So making others player know you regulary go out of time is pretty good : if one player doesn't want someone who play too slowly, he can just leave or ask for kicking you.
(If the message you get was someone who 'left' many game recently, then it's a bug, and report it)

As for the karma, you only lost 10 karma with the other person who kick you. It stayed a lot.

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Re: Hanabi — kicking out active players?

Post by Signy33 » 04 May 2020, 21:48

I had the same thing happen to me today.
I made one mistake in a multicolor game, and the others started to badmouth me on the chat. I took a little bit more time to think on the next turns, so as not to make any more mistakes, and they kicked me out. They also asked me questions on the chat, so it was distracting and slowed me down.
Again the same day, a guy who wanted to quit kicked me out as soon as i was out of time then immediatly quit himself. I gave that one a red thumb because it's not fair he doesn't get a penalty for leaving, and i get one when i wanted to keep playing.
I'll be back at 100% karma quickly since i play a lot, but it felt really unfair after hundreds of games with no problems.

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