Variant Diceless Siege of polis

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Léonidas Ier
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Joined: 26 July 2017, 22:04

Variant Diceless Siege of polis

Post by Léonidas Ier » 08 May 2020, 11:22

Hello BGA community,

I would like to initiate a discusion about a diceless variant game of Polis : Fight for the Hegemony.

My opinion is this game is very precise, technical and need to plan perfectly the management of Prestige points and ressources.
It seems very strange to allow a player to take a polis by just rolling a dice...
This game is like chess... do you think it's acceptable to roll a dice to try to get the queen with the rook ? I think no :o

For me this rule lead several problems :

Some players try to get level 3 city with hoplites in the first turn
--> they success ? they stay in game and have great advantage
--> they fail ? they play rapidely to loose the game and make another and try again
That leads to have games not interresting for both player...

For two players of the same level, if one of them fails 2 or 3 times the siege of level 2 city --> that will lead to probably loose the game for that player. Because this game suffers no error... specilly during the two firsts rounds...

Variant solution :

I see on BGG that the author Fran Diaz had suggest an official variant solution to solve this issue : ... ge-variant

After carfefully reads this variant I think his proposal seems not the better way because that will probably "break" the dynamic of the game. In few words the solution consists in take polis in the number of turn equal to city... So, statistical dice roll is converting in delay turns... I think this game can't work in that way but maybe I'm wrong...

The aim of this post is to initiate your opinions (with the participations of Fran Diaz).

My suggestion actually is based on the games I see on BGA. Here is my observations regarding polis siege :
  • Level 1 : polis can be taken by Proxenos or Hoplites
  • Level 2 : generally this polis is taken by Hoplites first because of a good statistical success. Proxenos is rarely used in order to save gold for higher level polis (specially in two firsts rounds).
  • level 3 : generally taken by Proxenos first. Hoplites a rarelly used because of high rates of failure, it's really difficult to make a strong strategy with 50/50 rolling dice. But in some case if the player have the superiority in the game, he can try this move for finishing his opponent... that just accelerate the end of game...
  • level 4 : only taken by Proxenos. With Hoplites, the sucess is too weak for make a real strategy based on this action, completely impossible. As for level 3 city, it's just doing by a player which have a great superiority to his opponent and could accelerate the end of the game for completely finish him.
So based on these observations, we could try to write the requirements to keep the maximum initial game working :
  • REQ 1 : as for original rule, a siege shall be acheived immediatelly
    (in order to keep dynamic of game : take a polis and collect area in the same turn of player for exemple)
  • REQ 2 : a siege could not lead to a failure
    (because we consider that a failure of a siege leads to put the player at a disavantage)
  • REQ 3 : the upper observations regarding polis siege shall be reflected in the game. In other words, take a level 4 polis with hoplites shall be only make by the player with great superiority. The "superiority" word could take several forms (number of city under control ? ressources in stock ? Prestiges points in advance ? etc...)
    (to avoid the weak player to miraculously win the game by just a luck rolling dice)
My proposal : my proposal is based to the need of additionnal ressources/PP when polis is taken by hoplites.


As you see it is very costly to take level 4 city with hoplite (REQ 3). It is a real choice to spent ressources to take city level 3. It is a bit more costly to take city of the opponent.

Any suggestions are welcome. Be constructive please, this is a serious topic, thanks for not trolling.

Have fun !

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Re: Variant Diceless Siege of polis

Post by Friedrich73 » 25 November 2020, 20:42

The current siege rules doesnt fit the game.
I just started playing and this is what immidiately struck me.
It doesnt seem like we are getting any input from the community or the Designer?

Is the variant in the rules implemented?
Thats a slight imrovement.

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