Several Translation Questions

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Liallan
Posts: 420
Joined: 26 May 2014, 07:01

Several Translation Questions

Postby Liallan » 15 February 2017, 04:45

Sorry to bother you all with a bunch of stuff and the vague title, but there's a lot about this "translating" I am not understanding. There's guidelines but no instructions per se. I have tried to look back through some threads, but there's just so much, I'm getting overwhelmed by them, and find it easier to just ask fresh. (When I have time, I will attempt to find/read more things here.)

I should point out I'm only referring to what ThierryC referred to as "English=>Improvement." I can't "translate" anything. :lol: (Oh weird, smilies have French hover-overs in this forum.)

Is there some way while just using the site, if I see something incorrect, to correct it? That is, the only place I have seen to do anything is https://en.boardgamearena.com/#!translationhq. I do not see any way when I randomly find something on the site, to get that into the transaction place. Does that make sense? I am only finding strings that already exist at that link, and they don't say where they are from or even seem connected in any way.

Which leads me to: I'm finding many things where context would be useful. I read that I can ask about that here, but there's just so many of them I don't feel I can ask about them all here! Things out of context can be really difficult.

Just an example: "Click here to see this player's trophies." In fact, ThierryC did the last fix there. It was apparently on a Tool Tip. I tried to find that to see the context but have no idea where that tool tip is, and without context I don't feel comfortable deciding the "best" way to say it. (Which is also subject to opinion and it's a bit of a nitpick. It's just a tool tip. ;) )

I see a few places where the last change added is exactly like the one before. I'm sure I'm getting bug-eyed at this point, but I did look at one very carefully for tiny changes and there were none, not so much as a dropped space. I'm wondering why people are doing that. Is it just to add the same thing again as a "confirmation" that the last one is good now? But I just read that only the last person gets the credit, so I have to wonder if someone is just trying to get credit?

Which leads to another thing... that makes me feel a bit guilty to make what I consider minor changes, even if the change is (IMO) a bit better version. I've only made one change thus far and it was a minor one, but I honestly believe it was more appropriate. I didn't realize the prior ones would get no credit. Should I be worrying myself about this?

Can news be translated? I did read that "articles" cannot, but I don't know if The News is considered an article. Because the one about the machine translating that just went up is full of errors. :-) (In fact, that's what got me to finally try this. LOL)

Een said I would now be able to change validated strings. I guess I expected something special to show up in my profile or settings allowing me to do this, but I see nothing. How does that work?

Is there a place to just discuss the English in general, for those of us just trying to improve English. The translation page has a place to put comments, but it would be nice to have a place to discuss something. For example, the weird inconsistencies of changing a "do not" to a "don't" when elsewhere a "don't" is changed to a "do not."

I do have two specific things right now:

Side note if ThierryC is reading this: "player's" (in that context) is not a contraction. It's a possessive. Apostrophes do not automatically make something a contraction. A contraction is to contract two words into one. If your native language is French, I can understand the confusion because possessives aren't done the same way in French. (Not referring to how you did it, but the comment you made on it.)

Another side note: "The news" is a generic term meaning any news that exists, but in the context of the title of the News as a section (like "Play Now," "Community," "Games," etc.), it should be capitalized. It's also used as a singular, so it should be "The News was" not "The News were." But I've only seen it corrected one place.

Liallan
Posts: 420
Joined: 26 May 2014, 07:01

Re: Several Translation Questions

Postby Liallan » 15 February 2017, 04:58

Liallan wrote:Een said I would now be able to change validated strings. I guess I expected something special to show up in my profile or settings allowing me to do this, but I see nothing. How does that work?


Ha - I figured this one out. They're all there, marked in gold.

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Een
Posts: 1423
Joined: 16 June 2010, 19:52

Re: Several Translation Questions

Postby Een » 15 February 2017, 15:51

Yes, big post :)

Liallan wrote:Is there some way while just using the site, if I see something incorrect, to correct it? That is, the only place I have seen to do anything is https://en.boardgamearena.com/#!translationhq. I do not see any way when I randomly find something on the site, to get that into the transaction place. Does that make sense? I am only finding strings that already exist at that link, and they don't say where they are from or even seem connected in any way.

Which leads me to: I'm finding many things where context would be useful. I read that I can ask about that here, but there's just so many of them I don't feel I can ask about them all here! Things out of context can be really difficult.


About the absence of context, this topic provides some explanations: https://forum.boardgamearena.com/viewto ... 11&t=11097
The recommended thing to do is, when you spot something off while browsing the website, to go to the translation page for this module, use the search field to find that translation and fix it.

Liallan wrote:I see a few places where the last change added is exactly like the one before. I'm sure I'm getting bug-eyed at this point, but I did look at one very carefully for tiny changes and there were none, not so much as a dropped space. I'm wondering why people are doing that. Is it just to add the same thing again as a "confirmation" that the last one is good now? But I just read that only the last person gets the credit, so I have to wonder if someone is just trying to get credit?


I suppose it's possible. There have been some reports and moderation (rarely) about that in the past.

Liallan wrote:Which leads to another thing... that makes me feel a bit guilty to make what I consider minor changes, even if the change is (IMO) a bit better version. I've only made one change thus far and it was a minor one, but I honestly believe it was more appropriate. I didn't realize the prior ones would get no credit. Should I be worrying myself about this?


No, you shouldn't. The translation history is available with the name of all contributors, and the points for validated translations are granted at the moment when the translation gets validated. Changes after validation have no effect other than improving the translation.

Liallan wrote:Can news be translated? I did read that "articles" cannot, but I don't know if The News is considered an article. Because the one about the machine translating that just went up is full of errors. :-) (In fact, that's what got me to finally try this. LOL)


Damn, I wrote this and didn't think it was so bad. :D
But no, the news post are written directly in English and are the basis for subsequent translations, so not translatable themselves. Sorry about the errors...

Liallan wrote:Een said I would now be able to change validated strings. I guess I expected something special to show up in my profile or settings allowing me to do this, but I see nothing. How does that work?


Nothing shows up, it's just that you can edit validated strings (golden mark), while otherwise you'd get an error message.

Liallan wrote:Is there a place to just discuss the English in general, for those of us just trying to improve English. The translation page has a place to put comments, but it would be nice to have a place to discuss something. For example, the weird inconsistencies of changing a "do not" to a "don't" when elsewhere a "don't" is changed to a "do not."


Our advice for other languages is to have a "<Language name in English> Translation - <Language name in this language>" topic in the translation forum to discuss language specific conventions for translations (for example: Japanese Translation- 日本語訳).
For English, a "English strings improvement" topic or something in the same trend could serve the same purpose.

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ThierryC
Posts: 40
Joined: 11 December 2016, 21:37

Re: Several Translation Questions

Postby ThierryC » 15 February 2017, 19:40

Hi Liallan,

Nice to see a new native English translator! :)
There are not many involved as far as I can see.

Liallan wrote:Oh weird, smilies have French hover-overs in this forum.

As far as I understand, the translation of the forum (phpBB) is independent from the translation system of BGA (see the line at the bottom of the page).

Liallan wrote:Which leads me to: I'm finding many things where context would be useful. I read that I can ask about that here, but there's just so many of them I don't feel I can ask about them all here! Things out of context can be really difficult.

I empathize with this. I feel a bit more comfortable after some practice. You'll probably get a sense of the "big picture" and of "how strings are typically connected" after some time. The search bar is also useful as Een pointed out.
That said, being able to sort by some kind of "context" or theme, or by date, would be a nice addition to the alphabetical order. Though the ultimate best would be what Een mentioned in another thread, i.e., being able to edit directly from the context.

Liallan wrote:Just an example: "Click here to see this player's trophies." In fact, ThierryC did the last fix there. It was apparently on a Tool Tip.

If I'm correct, this string corresponds to the last sentence of the tool tip connected to the second symbol "(i)" of a player (next to the symbols of trophies) when you look at a table.

Liallan wrote:I see a few places where the last change added is exactly like the one before. I'm sure I'm getting bug-eyed at this point, but I did look at one very carefully for tiny changes and there were none, not so much as a dropped space.

Do you have an example?
I have made some minor changes such as don`t => don't, punctuation, quotation marks, and some removals of extra spaces.
I noticed that extra spaces are sometimes not visible on the left (old) strings; especially when at the end of the string, I think.
Also, I may have replaced a normal space by an unbreakable space here and there; but I'm not doing it unless I see some other useful change(s).

Although it's possible to come back to an old version, it is not possible that the string is equal to the latest version. Besides, it seems that Een recently added a nice feature to check if the edition is equivalent to an old version. I assume that in such a case, the gift-point would be credited to the first author of that version.

Liallan wrote:Side note if ThierryC is reading this: "player's" (in that context) is not a contraction. It's a possessive. Apostrophes do not automatically make something a contraction. A contraction is to contract two words into one.

Right! I don't focus much on comments. (Although, in some way, it's a kind of special contraction: from "trophies of Liallan" to "Liallan's trophies".)

Thierry

Liallan
Posts: 420
Joined: 26 May 2014, 07:01

Re: Several Translation Questions

Postby Liallan » 16 February 2017, 01:00

First, thanks for the response to the "big post." I will check out the linked forum page

Een wrote:
Liallan wrote:Can news be translated? I did read that "articles" cannot, but I don't know if The News is considered an article. Because the one about the machine translating that just went up is full of errors. :-) (In fact, that's what got me to finally try this. LOL)


Damn, I wrote this and didn't think it was so bad. :D
But no, the news post are written directly in English and are the basis for subsequent translations, so not translatable themselves. Sorry about the errors...


:D
Don't apologize. I get that's not your native language. Not to mention the only French I know is scattered bits from a couple of years of it in school about 40 years ago. If only the internet*** had existed then, I might have remembered it. :mrgreen:

Most of it is probably related to "news" being treated as a plural when it's singular. So "it was" rather than "they were" and "each news on the welcome page" should be something like "each news item..."

Anyway, again, thanks for the info.

EDIT: ***the world wide web

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Een
Posts: 1423
Joined: 16 June 2010, 19:52

Re: Several Translation Questions

Postby Een » 17 February 2017, 20:03

Liallan wrote:Most of it is probably related to "news" being treated as a plural when it's singular. So "it was" rather than "they were" and "each news on the welcome page" should be something like "each news item..."


Thanks, I'll try to remember that :)


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