Modifying Original English Strings

BGA localization discussions
Liallan
Posts: 1149
Joined: 26 May 2014, 07:01

Re: Modifying Original English Strings

Postby Liallan » 01 December 2018, 09:15

Een wrote:
Liallan wrote:It does kind of mess with the meaning of the rules (because it's wrong), but would you call that kind of thing "changing the meaning"?


Absolutely, and this decision should be taken by the developer, and done in the code, so that all translations are updated with the correct meaning.


In that case, I'd say there definitely is some of this going on, although I think this is probably more important in the older games. In fact, I get really cautious on those. I guess I don't get how the actual translations are done. I mean, I know there's people doing it using that same tool. I've always figured early changes are more ok since it's still being translated. But I don't get what happens once translations are validated - how would they be updated?

This player actually made a lot of English->English changes. Hope there was not too much other damage...

How much work do you want to do? :lol: There were a lot of silly changes, like "buys" to "purchases" and "chooses" to "picks" and things that really have no purpose. (That's when I wonder if someone's just trying to get gift points.)

It also appears the person did not really know the rules well. I already did what I think are minor changes. But there's definitely things that do change the meaning, some more important than others. But when I have time I will post in the bugs to get it out of here - I can add more if needed, cause I need to find the context of some things. (I've noticed there's no developer name so I assume you get to do this.)

In the meantime, what are these:
LB_ACTIONS
LB_AVAILABLE_PERSONS
LB_THE_YEAR_OF_DRAGON
Why the all-caps and the LB? (Cause he changed these as well, and I never touch things that look like that.)

By the way, thanks for your time. :D

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Een
Posts: 2057
Joined: 16 June 2010, 19:52

Re: Modifying Original English Strings

Postby Een » 04 December 2018, 15:31

Liallan wrote:I've always figured early changes are more ok since it's still being translated.


Well, early or not, the strings may already have been translated in other languages. If there is a change in meaning, the only way to get things right is to force a full retranslation in all languages by changing the string in the code. This should be really rare.

If it's a syntax/grammar fix without change in meaning, of course then, it's ok to fix it only in English syntax and grammar in other languages will depend only on the quality of the translator.

Liallan wrote:But I don't get what happens once translations are validated - how would they be updated?


Translators with more than 100 validated strings are "trusted" to change validated strings if they find a mistake. Also, there is a sticky forum for players to report validated strings containing mistakes so that they can be fixed by someone with the appropriate rights. Btw, you have now 102 validated translations so you can actually fix anything you want :D

Liallan wrote:There were a lot of silly changes, like "buys" to "purchases" and "chooses" to "picks" and things that really have no purpose. (That's when I wonder if someone's just trying to get gift points.) It also appears the person did not really know the rules well. I already did what I think are minor changes. But there's definitely things that do change the meaning, some more important than others. But when I have time I will post in the bugs to get it out of here - I can add more if needed, cause I need to find the context of some things. (I've noticed there's no developer name so I assume you get to do this.)


That's what I feared. This happened in 2012 before we setup the notification email system to tell the developer about changes... As you seem to be currently playing this game (I haven't in a while), please do not hesitate to revert and fix bad changes made by this player.

In this case, it has been such a long time that I don't think forcing a retranslation in all languages would be a good idea, except for something really problematic.

Liallan wrote:In the meantime, what are these:
LB_ACTIONS
LB_AVAILABLE_PERSONS
LB_THE_YEAR_OF_DRAGON
Why the all-caps and the LB? (Cause he changed these as well, and I never touch things that look like that.)


There are two main ways to manage strings to translate. Either have a label in the code (LB_XXX) and then translate this label, or have the string itself in the code and consider it to be the label. We are now managing mainly with the second option (because it's much easier to read in the code, even if it has the drawback that it may lead to collisions), but we didn't always, so there are some of those labels in the translation system for the main site and old games. In that case, the source string from the developer is the first from the translation history (and you can revert to that if the change was bad).

Liallan wrote:By the way, thanks for your time. :D


And thanks for yours! :D

Liallan
Posts: 1149
Joined: 26 May 2014, 07:01

Re: Modifying Original English Strings

Postby Liallan » 05 December 2018, 10:34

Een wrote:
Liallan wrote:But I don't get what happens once translations are validated - how would they be updated?


Translators with more than 100 validated strings are "trusted" to change validated strings if they find a mistake. Also, there is a sticky forum for players to report validated strings containing mistakes so that they can be fixed by someone with the appropriate rights. Btw, you have now 102 validated translations so you can actually fix anything you want :D


I've been able to do validated strings all along, cause you fixed my account that way. Now it's just official. :D Anyway, I know all that so I think you misunderstood. But I guess the answer is "manually." Like someone already translated it and I change it, no one would even know unless they see the English and realize it's different. I guess if they understood what it was correctly supposed to be, it wouldn't even really matter. Not trying to bug you, but I'm someone who likes to "understand everything." So when you do it in the code and "force" a retranslation, it means it all reverts to English again and someone has to translate again? Yeah, I could see why you wouldn't want to do that unless really necessary.

Liallan wrote:There were a lot of silly changes, like "buys" to "purchases" and "chooses" to "picks" and things that really have no purpose. (That's when I wonder if someone's just trying to get gift points.) It also appears the person did not really know the rules well. I already did what I think are minor changes. But there's definitely things that do change the meaning, some more important than others. But when I have time I will post in the bugs to get it out of here - I can add more if needed, cause I need to find the context of some things. (I've noticed there's no developer name so I assume you get to do this.)


That's what I feared. This happened in 2012 before we setup the notification email system to tell the developer about changes... As you seem to be currently playing this game (I haven't in a while), please do not hesitate to revert and fix bad changes made by this player.


Yes I am. I have the game and it finally occurred to me this was a way to refresh the rules in my head since I don't get it to the table often. :mrgreen: But, will do. I don't think these things should matter because if someone knew the game and rules correctly, their translations would logically already be correct. (For instance, a place where it says number of "privilege tiles," when it's actually the number of dragons on all privilege tiles, I would think if someone knew that rule they would have just said it correctly, or someone would have reported it eventually.)

Liallan wrote:In the meantime, what are these:
LB_ACTIONS
LB_AVAILABLE_PERSONS
LB_THE_YEAR_OF_DRAGON
Why the all-caps and the LB? (Cause he changed these as well, and I never touch things that look like that.)


There are two main ways to manage strings to translate. Either have a label in the code (LB_XXX) and then translate this label, or have the string itself in the code and consider it to be the label. We are now managing mainly with the second option (because it's much easier to read in the code, even if it has the drawback that it may lead to collisions), but we didn't always, so there are some of those labels in the translation system for the main site and old games. In that case, the source string from the developer is the first from the translation history (and you can revert to that if the change was bad).


I didn't understand a word of that. :lol: But they weren't bad changes. (Like the first line is now just "Actions".) I was just afraid it might have messed something up, but I guess not.

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Een
Posts: 2057
Joined: 16 June 2010, 19:52

Re: Modifying Original English Strings

Postby Een » 05 December 2018, 12:51

Liallan wrote:Not trying to bug you, but I'm someone who likes to "understand everything." So when you do it in the code and "force" a retranslation, it means it all reverts to English again and someone has to translate again?


Yes, exactly. The old sentence is dumped and there is a new one to translate.

Liallan wrote:I didn't understand a word of that. :lol:


Sorry :D

Liallan wrote:But they weren't bad changes. (Like the first line is now just "Actions".) I was just afraid it might have messed something up, but I guess not.


Yes, it should be OK.

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N_Faker
Posts: 400
Joined: 09 September 2016, 10:16

Re: Modifying Original English Strings

Postby N_Faker » 05 December 2018, 22:36

Liallan wrote:There were a lot of silly changes, like "buys" to "purchases" and "chooses" to "picks" and things that really have no purpose. (That's when I wonder if someone's just trying to get gift points.)

"Purchase" is in line with the terminology used by the rules, "buy" is not used at all.

Liallan
Posts: 1149
Joined: 26 May 2014, 07:01

Re: Modifying Original English Strings

Postby Liallan » 08 December 2018, 10:36

N_Faker wrote:
Liallan wrote:There were a lot of silly changes, like "buys" to "purchases" and "chooses" to "picks" and things that really have no purpose. (That's when I wonder if someone's just trying to get gift points.)

"Purchase" is in line with the terminology used by the rules, "buy" is not used at all.


That may be, but many of the changes were the exact opposite, going from what the rules said to something else, like changing Peace to Rest (which don't have the same meaning) and the rules use "chooses" not "picks," etc. This seemed like someone who did not know the rules, so I doubt that was why.

Not that it really matters at this point, especially as they haven't been here for 2 years.

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N_Faker
Posts: 400
Joined: 09 September 2016, 10:16

Re: Modifying Original English Strings

Postby N_Faker » 08 December 2018, 12:35

Yeah, many or most changes by that user were quite horrible.


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