Modifying Original English Strings

[Liallan]

When there is a change in the meaning of the English source text, it should not be changed using the translation system. It should be done in the code, so that it's a new string to translate in all languages to keep the meaning homogeneous for everyone.

Good to know. Though it seems like this happens a lot anyway.

Well, it should not... there is a strong warning not to do this. If it still happens (does it really?), maybe we should disable modifying English strings completely or restrict it to a really few people properly briefed not to be overzealous.

OK, I copied this over to a new thread.

I don't honestly know how much changing of meanings is going on currently. Some of what I've seen seems over-zealous, which generally tends to be the same person/people. Some of it is old, like when I learn a new game, and I never see some of those people around anymore.

I suppose it also depends on what you call changing a meaning. Sometimes it's not a meaning that has changed, but rather stating it in a different way, but with the same general meaning. (Especially if it's really awkward.) Or it implies something that isn't correct. I personally try to change as little as possible, typos/spellings obviously, actual grammatical mistakes, but I will also do things that I think are confusing as stated, or just really awkward, as "bad grammar" is sometimes about awkwardness. (Kind of like the sentence I just wrote. LOL) I try to avoid messing too much with what I think the developer was trying to do. Maybe I'm over-sensitive to what I think is a bit too much re-writing, and sometimes for what seems like no purpose.

Sometimes the meaning needs changed because it's wrong, and not because we don't like the sound of it. I just started a new game. I already know the rules, and I think I saw something in the Action line that wasn't correct, but I need to wait til I see it again. But if said what I think it did, it's wrong by the rules, so of course the meaning would need changed. But I don't know what that does to the translations. (I guess it depends whether someone did it in context or not and therefore knew what it was supposed to say.)

I'd hate to disable the English because sometimes things just need changed. You're the one who has always wanted to keep this like an "open community" type thing.

[Een]

I personally try to change as little as possible, typos/spellings obviously, actual grammatical mistakes, but I will also do things that I think are confusing as stated, or just really awkward, as "bad grammar" is sometimes about awkwardness. (Kind of like the sentence I just wrote. LOL) I try to avoid messing too much with what I think the developer was trying to do. Maybe I'm over-sensitive to what I think is a bit too much re-writing, and sometimes for what seems like no purpose.

That's exactly the good spirit to have when working on improving the English source text. There should be as little re-writing as possible, in order not to risk messing up the original intention.

Sometimes the meaning needs changed because it's wrong, and not because we don't like the sound of it. I just started a new game. I already know the rules, and I think I saw something in the Action line that wasn't correct, but I need to wait til I see it again. But if said what I think it did, it's wrong by the rules, so of course the meaning would need changed. But I don't know what that does to the translations. (I guess it depends whether someone did it in context or not and therefore knew what it was supposed to say.)

In that case, English source text should be changed in the code, so as to deprecate the old string in the translation system and create a new one that will have to be translated in all languages, so that the mistaken meaning is fixed in all translations.

The way to go about this is to report the incorrect meaning as a bug so that the developer fixes it in the game code.

I'd hate to disable the English because sometimes things just need changed. You're the one who has always wanted to keep this like an "open community" type thing.

Quite true. That being said, we may need some moderation over these changes. Would you be interested in moderating English changes? If yes, you can PM me to discuss it.

[N_Faker]

Reported rules link button options:
[Accept] [Refuse] [Modify]

Rules link button options:
[Remove] [Modify]

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Suggested reported rules link button options:
[Dismiss Report] [Remove] [Modify]

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Adding a pop-up to the original [Refuse] button just like the original [Remove] button would be nice.

[Liallan]

I'd hate to disable the English because sometimes things just need changed. You're the one who has always wanted to keep this like an "open community" type thing.

Quite true. That being said, we may need some moderation over these changes. Would you be interested in moderating English changes? If yes, you can PM me to discuss it.

I'm not sure what that would entail, but my guess is I wouldn't have time, as interesting as that sounds. I don't know enough games, and I don't have time to learn all the new ones we get. And my guess is you're referring to the newer games when most of the work is being done, and that is really tough to keep up with. (Though 3 easy games I know were specifically for the translating, so see, it got me to learn some new games. I even bought one. )

[N_Faker]

Sometimes the meaning needs changed because it's wrong, and not because we don't like the sound of it. I just started a new game. I already know the rules, and I think I saw something in the Action line that wasn't correct, but I need to wait til I see it again. But if said what I think it did, it's wrong by the rules, so of course the meaning would need changed. But I don't know what that does to the translations. (I guess it depends whether someone did it in context or not and therefore knew what it was supposed to say.)

In that case, English source text should be changed in the code, so as to deprecate the old string in the translation system and create a new one that will have to be translated in all languages, so that the mistaken meaning is fixed in all translations.

The way to go about this is to report the incorrect meaning as a bug so that the developer fixes it in the game code.

Should the incorrect string be left alone until it is fixed by the developer?

[Een]

Reported rules link button options:
[Accept] [Refuse] [Modify]

Rules link button options:
[Remove] [Modify]

-

Suggested reported rules link button options:
[Dismiss Report] [Remove] [Modify]

-

Adding a pop-up to the original [Refuse] button just like the original [Remove] button would be nice.

These are not strings visible for everyone, just for moderators... Please keep moderation related improvement requests as a private dialogue with administrators rather than on the forum (also, since this is a restricted function for moderators who know what they do, this is not really a big concern).

[Een]

I'm not sure what that would entail, but my guess is I wouldn't have time, as interesting as that sounds. I don't know enough games, and I don't have time to learn all the new ones we get. And my guess is you're referring to the newer games when most of the work is being done, and that is really tough to keep up with. (Though 3 easy games I know were specifically for the translating, so see, it got me to learn some new games. I even bought one. )

Ok
Actually I was more thinking about keeping watch over the main site and old games. We have setup a tool that notifies the developer by email in case of an English->English change with the name of the player who made the change, the previous string and the new string. This allows the developer to see quickly if someone went overboard changing things. The idea would have been to have a moderator in copy of these emails for the mainsite and games not assigned to a developer (older games developed by BGA).
But anyway, I think I remember that you are not much into email

[Een]

Sometimes the meaning needs changed because it's wrong, and not because we don't like the sound of it. I just started a new game. I already know the rules, and I think I saw something in the Action line that wasn't correct, but I need to wait til I see it again. But if said what I think it did, it's wrong by the rules, so of course the meaning would need changed. But I don't know what that does to the translations. (I guess it depends whether someone did it in context or not and therefore knew what it was supposed to say.)

In that case, English source text should be changed in the code, so as to deprecate the old string in the translation system and create a new one that will have to be translated in all languages, so that the mistaken meaning is fixed in all translations.

The way to go about this is to report the incorrect meaning as a bug so that the developer fixes it in the game code.

Should the incorrect string be left alone until it is fixed by the developer?

Yes. Otherwise it makes it more difficult for the developer to confirm the problem and fix it. Also, this should happen really rarely, as most games are playtested with the publisher or designer before release.

[Liallan]

But anyway, I think I remember that you are not much into email

I'm surprised you remember that. You're half right. I'm not a big fan of constantly getting notifications about stuff like that it's my turn. And I'm on the site every day so there's not much point, and then requires clean-up. But I do notifications for things that are not daily occurrences or when I know I'll be getting stuff I need to check.

But.. let me think about it. It wasn't what I expected.

OK, now can I ask your opinion of an example and whether you'd consider this a "change of meaning"?

I finally saw the same thing again in In the Year of the Dragon. I did see what I thought, but there was more to it, so it doesn't sound as ridiculous as I thought it did. But it's still technically incorrect - it even confused me a bit, so I could see it confusing a new player.

In the case of not having room in a palace for a newly recruited person tile, it says "You must choose which person your new recruit should replace" followed by a button that says "None available! Release your new one."

The "none available" shouldn't be there. It sounds like an obligation, which it's not. It's just a choice of the player. And I think that situation is even impossible (or extremely improbable), because I can't see someone not having any workers, and even if you didn't, then there would be space and you wouldn't get this action message at all. So the "none available" needs to go.

It does kind of mess with the meaning of the rules (because it's wrong), but would you call that kind of thing "changing the meaning"?

[Een]

It does kind of mess with the meaning of the rules (because it's wrong), but would you call that kind of thing "changing the meaning"?

Absolutely, and this decision should be taken by the developer, and done in the code, so that all translations are updated with the correct meaning.

And after checking... this is actually indeed a case of overzealous, incorrect English to English translation.

The original string from the developer is "None ! Release the new one." So it meant that the new recruit should not replace any of the persons. "available" was added, and it indeed changes the meaning to something pretty confusing. I reverted it.

This player actually made a lot of English->English changes. Hope there was not too much other damage...

If you want to take a look:
https://boardgamearena.com/#!translatio ... id=3634221