About new ending punctuation signs rule

BGA localization discussions
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e1q3z9c7
Posts: 76
Joined: 14 September 2014, 13:58

About new ending punctuation signs rule

Post by e1q3z9c7 »

In our language, we use fullwidth characters instead of halfwidth, it looks uncoordinated if we put a halfwith punctuation sign in our sentences. e.g."你好嗎?" is better than "你好嗎? ". Please consider to make both of them legal, thanks.
Here is the contrast: http://pre.nkut.edu.tw/files/archive/76_8dd67fd3.pdf
Last edited by e1q3z9c7 on 19 March 2019, 14:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Een
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Joined: 16 June 2010, 19:52

Re: About new ending punctuation signs rule

Post by Een »

Thanks, I didn't know that.
Checks are only on the final ending punctuation: '.', '!', '?'
Copying the fullwidth equivalents from your PDF doesn't seem to work, can you post them here so that I can use them?
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e1q3z9c7
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Joined: 14 September 2014, 13:58

Re: About new ending punctuation signs rule

Post by e1q3z9c7 »

Sure

?→?
!→!
.→。

Thank you.
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Een
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Joined: 16 June 2010, 19:52

Re: About new ending punctuation signs rule

Post by Een »

Thanks, this punctuation will be authorized with the next release.
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Tottori_Torinosuke
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Joined: 04 February 2018, 04:00

Re: About new ending punctuation signs rule

Post by Tottori_Torinosuke »

I understand your thought that we should respect the original texts, but could you completely abolish this rule about punctuation signs?
In our language (Japanese), the gramatical structure is totally different from that of English. Now our translation are forced to be more of strange than improved, due to this rule.

For example, this phrase from "Remember When";
I asked myself, "What would mothers do?"
should be translated like below;
私は"お母さんならどうするだろう?"と自問したからだ.
(we use "「" and "」" as quotation marks, but in this phrase I used English quatation marks for clarity. Marks "." and "?" are used of same reason.)
In our language, quotations are inserted in the middle of sentences in most cases.The new punctuation rule prevents and bothers us to make simple, artless and clear translations.
Besides, maybe some of other languages have similar problems like the Japanese language.

I really hope you to consider about this rule. Thank you!
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Guszty
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Joined: 07 January 2013, 13:16

Re: About new ending punctuation signs rule

Post by Guszty »

Please turn off this feature.
We use punctuation in Hungarian languag different from English.
For example: We use "!" end of imperative sentences.
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Een
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Joined: 16 June 2010, 19:52

Re: About new ending punctuation signs rule

Post by Een »

Thanks for your feedback.
We added this restriction because we realized that some translators added or removed punctuation in a way that was not compatible with the interface.
For example, if the text is inside a button, there should not be a final '.'
For example, this phrase from "Remember When";
I asked myself, "What would mothers do?"
should be translated like below;
私は"お母さんならどうするだろう?"と自問したからだ.
The new rule is only about final punctuation; it doesn't concern quotes and punctuation inside the string itself. So this example translation would work without the final '.', which is what we want since there was no final '.' in the original string (meaning it's probably in a log context where the '.' is not needed/wanted by the developer since in the interface the logs are already separated in blocks so '.' to separe them are redundant).
We use punctuation in Hungarian languag different from English.
For example: We use "!" end of imperative sentences.
Well, we could relax this rule about final punctuation to allow for replacing "." by "!" but that doesn't mean abolishing it completely. And "!" is used in English also for imperative sentences https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclamation_mark#English

I'm open to relaxing these rules on a per-language basis if needed (please give appropriate examples to demonstrate) but in general the rule should be "use the same final punctuation (or lack thereof) as in English".
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Tottori_Torinosuke
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Joined: 04 February 2018, 04:00

Re: About new ending punctuation signs rule

Post by Tottori_Torinosuke »

Thank you for your quick reply.

I understand that it is introduced to deal with problems around the interface.
It is very incompetent with our language, but if we admit the strange translations, anyway it might be able to be translated.
To make matters worse is that we also cannot insert final punctuation marks where it definitely must be (as an example I gave above).
This is because the uses of punctuation marks and quatation marks are very different from that of English.

As I indicated above, the proper translation of the sentence;
I asked myself, "What would mothers do?"
must be ended by a punctiation mark in Japanese;
私は"お母さんならどうするだろう?"と自問したからだ.
The problem is that the way of using punctuation marks are really different among languages (even if it is not needed in English, that doesn't mean it is not needed in other languages too.) And due to this problem, we are seriously in trouble when we try to translate properly. Also, I think that, whether the phrase is compatible with the interface or not, may be dependant on languages.

My suggestions are below;

1. Abolish this punctuation mark rule if possible. This rule is too problematic, rather than improved, for us (and maybe for players using other languages too). if this rule is not for solve errors with interfaces (and just for its appearence), I strongly want you to abandon this rule.

2. If there would be some problems when this rule is abolished, then please change the form of sentences with punctuation marks as below;
I asked myself, "What would mothers do"?
I thought, "If I build it, he will come".
In other words, please don't make phrases without ending punctuation marks at the very last of sentences.

(Maybe Suggestion No. 2 would force you to modify a very large number of sentences, so I think suggestion No.1 is preferable, if possible.)
We are in very serious trouble making preferable translation and allow Japanese players to enjoy games. I entreat you to consider about these suggestions...
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Alca-chan
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Joined: 15 February 2018, 23:33

Re: About new ending punctuation signs rule

Post by Alca-chan »

I noticed there is a fix in translations with the comment "BGA fix, normalize ending punctuation". It deleted all ending punctuation in some translation and even though for some of those there is ending punctuation in English.

And another great thing this "fix" did is that instead of 1. (1st), 2. (2nd), 3. (3rd) we have just 1, 2, 3, and the translation of "th" was ".", now it's empty.

Should I fix it myself (is it even possible now?) or are you going to revert it?
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Infinity25
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Joined: 30 November 2014, 04:24

Re: About new ending punctuation signs rule

Post by Infinity25 »

Simplified Chinese also have same problem. The punctuation is same as traditional Chinese given above.
Besides, in some case, an ending punctuation same to English's (or corresponding full-width version) MAY not be the best elegant or graceful translation.
Therefore, I propose disabling the auto fix for Chinese, leaving more free space for translators to make it a common touch.
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