About new ending punctuation signs rule

BGA localization discussions
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Een
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Re: About new ending punctuation signs rule

Post by Een » 25 March 2019, 17:11

Tottori_Torinosuke wrote: 1. Abolish this punctuation mark rule if possible. This rule is too problematic, rather than improved, for us (and maybe for players using other languages too). if this rule is not for solve errors with interfaces (and just for its appearence), I strongly want you to abandon this rule.
Following your remarks, the rule has been changed into a warning (for all languages in the next release).

But please really mind the warning and do not use ending punctuation where there is none in English unless absolutely necessary! As a general rule, it should not be done, as it may betray the original meaning and interface aesthetics chosen by the developer in English.

If you feel that the developer should have used a final punctuation in the original text, you can submit a change request for validation in English to English translation.
Alca-chan wrote:I noticed there is a fix in translations with the comment "BGA fix, normalize ending punctuation".
Yes, some translators had altered the final punctuations in English a little anarchically over the years (there is now a validation process for that).

So punctuation in other languages might have been wrong because of these bad changes in English instead of being a thought out translator's choice, and we decided to 1) restore English correct punctuation then 2) normalize other languages in respect to the original text to restore homogeneity.
Alca-chan wrote:It deleted all ending punctuation in some translation and even though for some of those there is ending punctuation in English.
If it did that in some cases, it's a mistake. The goal was to restore proper punctuation relative to the original English text. It's possible that we missed some cases but it should be marginal.
Alca-chan wrote:And another great thing this "fix" did is that instead of 1. (1st), 2. (2nd), 3. (3rd) we have just 1, 2, 3, and the translation of "th" was ".", now it's empty.

Should I fix it myself (is it even possible now?) or are you going to revert it?
This was indeed an unintended consequence of the process. I reverted that.
Infinity25 wrote:Simplified Chinese also have same problem. The punctuation is same as traditional Chinese given above.
Besides, in some case, an ending punctuation same to English's (or corresponding full-width version) MAY not be the best elegant or graceful translation.
Therefore, I propose disabling the auto fix for Chinese, leaving more free space for translators to make it a common touch.
As you say "MAY not be". But in the general case it SHOULD be. So now the interface doesn't block final punctuation changes but only displays a warning: translators MAY choose to disregard the warning, but SHOULD give it some thought to be REALLY sure that it's the best thing to do for the meaning and the interface in their language.

I'd also like to state that this corrective treatment had to be done mainly because we were not clear enough in our translation guidelines and because we left the original English text a little too open to mistakes. We are still learning along the way, internationalization is definitely complex. :D

Thanks again to all translators doing their best to make BGA available in so many languages!

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Alca-chan
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Re: About new ending punctuation signs rule

Post by Alca-chan » 25 March 2019, 21:24

Een wrote:
Alca-chan wrote:And another great thing this "fix" did is that instead of 1. (1st), 2. (2nd), 3. (3rd) we have just 1, 2, 3, and the translation of "th" was ".", now it's empty.

Should I fix it myself (is it even possible now?) or are you going to revert it?
This was indeed an unintended consequence of the process. I reverted that.
Thanks. Now it's ok for 1st, 2nd, ..., but not for th, which is still empty.

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Een
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Re: About new ending punctuation signs rule

Post by Een » 26 March 2019, 10:38

Alca-chan wrote:Thanks. Now it's ok for 1st, 2nd, ..., but not for th, which is still empty.
Thanks, I reverted that too!

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Re: About new ending punctuation signs rule

Post by Alca-chan » 29 March 2019, 10:27

I found one more thing, in Czech, we omit subject (unless you really want to stress it), the verb form expresses the subject. But here in games the sentences usually go like "${you} ...", so we came up with translating "you" as "Information for you:" ("Informace pro vás:"). But now there is no colon, and it looks weird.

Would it be possible to put the colon in this specific string (translation of "You" to "Informace pro vás:") back? (I already did so in main site translations, but I'm sure it's in a lot of games again.)

And in The Palaces of Carrara, there is a string "Upgrade: " (with a space at the end) translated to "Vylepšení:", which is correct, but space is missing, and I can't add it (it always reverts to previous translation). I was hoping you could solve this kind of issues too. I believe there are other strings with the same problem.

Thanks.

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Een
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Re: About new ending punctuation signs rule

Post by Een » 29 March 2019, 12:43

Alca-chan wrote:Would it be possible to put the colon in this specific string (translation of "You" to "Informace pro vás:") back? (I already did so in main site translations, but I'm sure it's in a lot of games again.)
I checked and reverted the ':' where it had been removed for ""Informace pro vás:" strings. Only 2 occurrences, usually the one from the mainsite is used for all games unless the developer redeclares it.
Alca-chan wrote:And in The Palaces of Carrara, there is a string "Upgrade: " (with a space at the end) translated to "Vylepšení:", which is correct, but space is missing, and I can't add it (it always reverts to previous translation). I was hoping you could solve this kind of issues too. I believe there are other strings with the same problem.
On principle, the developer (and translators) should not leave trailing spaces in strings to be translated.
But developers sometimes do, so maybe I should allow the same number of spaces as in the original string when translating... I'll see about that...

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