ELO weighting? Feels like it's much harder to win as the killer in Citizen arrest variant

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liandri
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Joined: 05 August 2016, 21:19

ELO weighting? Feels like it's much harder to win as the killer in Citizen arrest variant

Post by liandri » 01 April 2021, 11:09

Title says all.

tamtam12345
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Joined: 30 January 2016, 07:14

Re: ELO weighting? Feels like it's much harder to win as the killer in Citizen arrest variant

Post by tamtam12345 » 12 April 2021, 15:50

Totally agree. Citizen arrest option makes Inspector have 3 extra guesses to catch killer. Although each guess will lose a card from Inspector, Inspector have a HUGE adventage by using DEAD CITIZEN to ARREST YOU!!!
HOW RIDICULOUS IT IS! Inspector can summon back the GHOST to catch the killer?? Then why not change the game name to “Inspector vs Wizard”? :cry:

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Manassès I
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Re: ELO weighting? Feels like it's much harder to win as the killer in Citizen arrest variant

Post by Manassès I » 12 April 2021, 16:12

The option "arrest citizen" is not obligatory, you can play without this option

GeraldineMerida
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Joined: 15 December 2020, 07:27

Re: ELO weighting? Feels like it's much harder to win as the killer in Citizen arrest variant

Post by GeraldineMerida » 13 April 2021, 12:23

I wouldn't say it's MUCH harder to win as the killer with CA variant. I'd say it's slightly harder.

(And FWIW, most high-ranked players I see don't actually use the citizen cards to take 3 extra guesses at the killer's identity. They use them to pin down the killer in the end game.)

And if corpses arresting killers bother you thematically, don't think of it as a citizen's arrest. Think of it as the victim tracing the killer's name in their own blood with their dying breath, leading to an arrest.

tamtam12345
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Joined: 30 January 2016, 07:14

Re: ELO weighting? Feels like it's much harder to win as the killer in Citizen arrest variant

Post by tamtam12345 » 13 April 2021, 18:40

Manassès I wrote:
12 April 2021, 16:12
The option "arrest citizen" is not obligatory, you can play without this option
Everyone know "citizen arrest" is just an option. However, it is needed to know why this option comes.(to make the game balance because Inspector have a Disadvantage without any additional support...)
Open a gameWithout "citizen arrest" -> Randomly selected as Inspector
->Killer is too strong -> OPEN A GAME WITH OPTION
->Randomly selected as Killer
-> Thought Inspector is OP ->KEEP LOOPING... HORRIBLE

What my feeling is : This "citizen arrest" option give too much support to Inspector side. Need to weaken those support(Dead citizen could "arrest" Killer) to make the game balanced.
GeraldineMerida wrote:
13 April 2021, 12:23
(And FWIW, most high-ranked players I see don't actually use the citizen cards to take 3 extra guesses at the killer's identity. They use them to pin down the killer in the end game.)

And if corpses arresting killers bother you thematically, don't think of it as a citizen's arrest. Think of it as the victim tracing the killer's name in their own blood with their dying breath, leading to an arrest.
Just let me explain differences.
You can spread the game into 3 parts: STARTING, MIDDLE, NEAR END.

WITHOUT "CITIZEN ARREST"
STARTING:
Inspector can't catch killer except killer stand next to Inspector & sure enough which one is killer.
Killer can't kill Inspector except Luck.
MIDDLE:
Inspector can't catch killer except killer stand next to Inspector & STAY TOO LONG to let Inspector kick out suspicious person.
Killer can't kill Inspector except Luck & KILLED Innocents to reduce possible choices.
NEAR END:
1. Inspector successfully hide the identity (>=3) -> use them to surround killer to win(misleading killer).
2. Killer nearly/fully know who is inspector -> say GG if you think Killer is careful enough.

Conclusion: Inspector hide until end & surround killer to win / catch killer if % is high. (Killer have Adv)

WITH OPTION:
STARTING: Nearly same, Inspector have little adv than Without "Citizen Arrest".
MIDDLE:
Inspector keep fliping Innocent cards & use "Citizen arrest" if % is high. (My experience is Inspector have 25~33% to catch killer successfully after killer each kill)
MIDDLE TO NEARLY END: No chance for killer to win because Inspector could summon dead body to catch you...

Conclusion: Nearly NO CHANCE FOR KILLER TO WIN WHEN GAME COMES NEAR TO END...

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JackKey
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Re: ELO weighting? Feels like it's much harder to win as the killer in Citizen arrest variant

Post by JackKey » 01 May 2021, 15:44

The game without CA option is easier for Killer: just kill everybody around you and Inspector has no chance to approach you to catch.
It seems the authors decided to change the balance and introduced this CA option.
With the CA option the game is easier for Inspector now: hide by the end of the game and chase the Killer by citizens and zombies.

I suggest to have the mode when you always play a pair of games with each role. If you win both, you score the VP and win the game. In case of draw (1:1), play additional 2 rounds until someone win for both sides.

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