Unfair rules at draw games

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LuxuryJesper
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Joined: 26 June 2019, 10:34

Unfair rules at draw games

Post by LuxuryJesper » 06 October 2019, 14:39

What I don't get about draws, is that it isn't actually a tie, since the weak player of the two gets points, while the strong player loses points. In other words; the weak player actually benefits from a game, where there is no winner! While the strong player get's punished, by simple being better. Actually, the weak player can do everything in his/her power to destroy the game, and benefit from it. It's a disgrace, and you should change it immediately.

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RicardoRix
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Re: Unfair rules at draw games

Post by RicardoRix » 07 October 2019, 14:16

Are you trying to say that if you draw in chess against Magnus Carlsen then that doesn't mean anything?

I think if all you ever did was draw in chess against Magnus Carlsen then that would mean you have a very simlar if not equal ELO rating as Magnus Carlsen.

The other way of looking at it, is if you are a higher rated player, then prove it. Beat the lower rated player, don't just draw with them.

Also, the game is a still a tie.

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Romain672
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Re: Unfair rules at draw games

Post by Romain672 » 09 October 2019, 20:02

What could be changed anyway is adding a variable on each game who try to have the % of draw.

That way, if he game have a lot of draw, you will gain or loss less elo than a game with few draw.

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LuxuryJesper
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Re: Unfair rules at draw games

Post by LuxuryJesper » 22 May 2020, 20:00

RicardoRix wrote:
07 October 2019, 14:16
Are you trying to say that if you draw in chess against Magnus Carlsen then that doesn't mean anything?

I think if all you ever did was draw in chess against Magnus Carlsen then that would mean you have a very simlar if not equal ELO rating as Magnus Carlsen.

The other way of looking at it, is if you are a higher rated player, then prove it. Beat the lower rated player, don't just draw with them.

Also, the game is a still a tie.
I mainly play Nine Men's Morris, but yes, this should apply to all games, where a draw is an option - no matter who the opponent is.

No one is supposed to "prove" anything. When you start a game, it's supposed to be from scratch, from zero. But, if one of the players have an advantage even before the game starts, then the game isn't equal.

Not in regards to points. No one should benefit from not winning

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LuxuryJesper
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Re: Unfair rules at draw games

Post by LuxuryJesper » 22 May 2020, 20:03

Romain672 wrote:
09 October 2019, 20:02
What could be changed anyway is adding a variable on each game who try to have the % of draw.

That way, if he game have a lot of draw, you will gain or loss less elo than a game with few draw.
Nahh. You can't put a percentage on this. It's subjective.

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aesche
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Re: Unfair rules at draw games

Post by aesche » 23 May 2020, 01:02

Referring to Nine Men‘s Morris too, I strongly agree that draws should not lead to a point loss for the player with higher ELO! OP said everything relevant, it’s just wrong as it is currently. Also, like we just can see in Connect 4, this is possible to implement!

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aesche
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Re: Unfair rules at draw games

Post by aesche » 19 June 2020, 09:29

I created a suggestion to get this fixed! Please vote it up!

https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=19514

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Pentanick
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Re: Unfair rules at draw games

Post by Pentanick » 24 February 2021, 22:01

The problem is: Every beginner can play a draw against the very best in Mill's. Not always, but it does happen. The chess comparison is lame and does not show any knowledge of the game. And then there are the beginners for whom a tie is not enough and who do not accept the tie offer. Instead, they push the stones endlessly back and forth until the opponent becomes too stupid and gives up. The official rules in mill are similar to those in chess. If the move is repeated 3 times it is a draw. If there are 50 moves without a stone taken: a tie. If you can compare, then do it correctly. :idea:

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RicardoRix
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Re: Unfair rules at draw games

Post by RicardoRix » 24 February 2021, 22:11

Pentanick wrote:
24 February 2021, 22:01
The problem is: Every beginner can play a draw against the very best in Mill's. Not always, but it does happen. The chess comparison is lame and does not show any knowledge of the game. And then there are the beginners for whom a tie is not enough and who do not accept the tie offer. Instead, they push the stones endlessly back and forth until the opponent becomes too stupid and gives up. The official rules in mill are similar to those in chess. If the move is repeated 3 times it is a draw. If there are 50 moves without a stone taken: a tie. If you can compare, then do it correctly. :idea:
So are you saying that if you get a draw against the morris world champion then that's not worth anything?

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Pentanick
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Re: Unfair rules at draw games

Post by Pentanick » 24 February 2021, 23:46

RicardoRix wrote:
24 February 2021, 22:11

...
So are you saying that if you get a draw against the morris world champion then that's not worth anything?
Yes, I mean that. I would never beat him. But a draw would only be a matter of time. Not because I'm so good, but just because it's not chess. ;) I'd have a bit of fun with it. But even "just" surviving 40 moves against Magnus would be the definitely sicker highlight for me.
Edit: Next time I will express myself more kindly. Was a little bit annoyed.

The reason why I actually wrote...
If not the end of the game in the 3rd position replay, then at least a draw at 50 moves without hitting. Just had a really unpleasant experience here.

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