Plural

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ollyfish2002
Posts: 223
Joined: 29 January 2015, 09:32

Plural

Postby ollyfish2002 » 07 November 2018, 09:34

Hello
I have translated some sentences in french.
But for me, there is a problem : temples, towers and huts are in plural in english.
Those words appear in log but you cannot place more than 1 tower and temple at a time (singular) and sometimes you can place only 1 hut (both).
I have change them in english too, but someone returns them to plural.
Who is right ?

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Een
Posts: 2008
Joined: 16 June 2010, 19:52

Re: Plural

Postby Een » 07 November 2018, 09:50

Hello,

Original English strings should be changed only by native English speakers using BGA in English so they can see strings in context while playing to be 100% sure it's the right thing to do as it affects all translations in other languages.

So, the general rule is... please don't change English strings :)

The developer is notified each time an original English string is changed, so that he can check that the change is correct. In that case, he reverted your change, so well, since he is the developer he is in the best position to know what is right.

If you think there is still a problem, you should play a game in English to make sure and report the problem using the bugs report tool so that it can be fixed in the code by the developer if needed (here, if there is a problem, it's probably that plural is used both in contexts where it is indeed plural and in contexts where it should be singular).

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N_Faker
Posts: 393
Joined: 09 September 2016, 10:16

Re: Plural

Postby N_Faker » 07 November 2018, 09:51

It is the developer that want those strings to remain unaltered.

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ollyfish2002
Posts: 223
Joined: 29 January 2015, 09:32

Re: Plural

Postby ollyfish2002 » 07 November 2018, 10:20

Simple example :
English
Move 27 :16:29:24
ollyfish2002 builds 1 temples on clearing.
Move 28 :16:29:39
Wombat1234 places a tile with rock and jungle on level 2, destroying 2 huts.
Move 32 :16:29:55
Wombat1234 builds 1 temples on clearing.

French
Move 27 :16:29:24
ollyfish2002 construit 1 temple sur prairie.
Move 28 :16:29:39
Wombat1234 place une tuile avec montagne et forêt au niveau 2, détruisant 2 hutte(s).
Move 32 :16:29:55
Wombat1234 construit 1 temple sur prairie.

Where "temples" and "towers" are used in plural ?
I have posted a"bug".

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Een
Posts: 2008
Joined: 16 June 2010, 19:52

Re: Plural

Postby Een » 07 November 2018, 11:06

Well, actually this happens in a lot of games when the number can be 1 or more.

In this case, the log is "${player_name} construit ${count} ${bldg_name} sur ${face_name}."

Then ${count} is substituted by the number, and ${bldg_name} by the building type.

So it can be singular or plural. Sometimes the solution used for this is to use parenthesis for the plural, such as "temple(s)" (even if this is not quite good for some languages where plural has different forms relative to the number).

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ollyfish2002
Posts: 223
Joined: 29 January 2015, 09:32

Re: Plural

Postby ollyfish2002 » 07 November 2018, 12:29

I agree but by the rules, you cannot build more than 1 temple or 1 tower at the same time. For hut, it is different, that is why i put hutte(s) in french.

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Een
Posts: 2008
Joined: 16 June 2010, 19:52

Re: Plural

Postby Een » 07 November 2018, 12:46

Yes, but the developer uses the same base string for all building types. And may use elsewhere the plural version of the building types.
Well, let's let him look at the bug report :)

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N_Faker
Posts: 393
Joined: 09 September 2016, 10:16

Re: Plural

Postby N_Faker » 07 November 2018, 12:56

They are also used for the building stockpile mouseover tooltips.

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quietmint
Posts: 54
Joined: 31 July 2017, 00:28

Re: Plural

Postby quietmint » 09 November 2018, 04:38

Yes, all building names are used in plural in the game.

---

This is working as designed. I chose to use only one string for each building type to simplify both the translation side and the development side. This is in line with the guidelines on BGA Studio:
The BGA translation policy is to be flexible on grammar... We prefer to write "player gets 1 coin(s)" than write two versions of the same string for plural and singular - it reduces the number of strings to translate.

Yes, there are situations where all the building names are used in plural. In addition to the example mentioned by N_Faker, the win condition string says something like "Early victory! Sheila has built all temples and towers." Sentences about zero/none would also use the plural form. The end-of-game statistics also use the plural form "Huts destroyed", "Towers placed", etc. (and in that case, the platform doesn't give us an opportunity to have separate singular/plural strings)

In English you could write "hut(s)" but that doesn't work for all words in English (foot/feet), let alone all languages. Basically, is "Sheila places 1 hut(s)" really different from "Sheila places 1 huts"? For me, no. These sentences are both equally wrong but still clear. To properly fix this, we'd need separate strings for "hut" and "huts" ... or maybe even more strings like "a hut", "${count} huts", etc. since that numeral 1 is awkward, too. We're not doing that.

I updated the translations for these three strings only ("huts", "temples", "towers") to have "(s)". I think it's absolutely no better than with the regular "s", but if it will shut everyone up, fine.

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N_Faker
Posts: 393
Joined: 09 September 2016, 10:16

Re: Plural

Postby N_Faker » 09 November 2018, 05:25

quietmint wrote:I updated the translations for these three strings only ("huts", "temples", "towers") to have "(s)". I think it's absolutely no better than with the regular "s", but if it will shut everyone up, fine.

Nooooo! Words with variable plurality for the building stockpile tooltip titles looks ridiculous!

This change will also make this string confusing. If you have to build 'all', why does it use variable plurality words? Do you only have to build all of the first building type, but only one of the second?

Early victory! ${player_name} has built all ${bldg_name} and ${bldg_name2}.


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