Tournament Scoring

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enigmisto
Posts: 5
Joined: 17 March 2020, 06:44

Tournament Scoring

Post by enigmisto » 26 March 2020, 06:45

In Skat tournaments, in addition the classic scoring, each time a player makes their bid, they get +50 points. When they fail, they get -50 points and their opponents each get 40 points.

This seems to be the favored way to play these days, because it evens out the value of the various the contracts somewhat.

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fuzzycoatimundi
Posts: 17
Joined: 18 January 2016, 04:10

Re: Tournament Scoring

Post by fuzzycoatimundi » 31 March 2020, 02:58

This would be an excellent addition as a scoring option for Skat, and IMO much more useful than the current alternate scoring option.

(Mentioned briefly here: https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=14361)

Please DrKarrote, if you have the time!

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DrKarotte
Posts: 254
Joined: 22 September 2015, 23:42

Re: Tournament Scoring

Post by DrKarotte » 12 April 2020, 20:54

I am willing to add this, but it should be done properly, and I am not quite sure about the details at the moment.

The paragraph in the ISkO document linked in the bug report mentioned is as follows:

"At the end of a series, each playing partner receives a 50-point bonus for each game won, and 50 points are deducted for each game lost. For every lost game at a table of four, each playing partner receives a 30-point bonus for each loss of the other playing partners. At a table with three playing
partners, the bonus is 40 points. Example at a four-player table:
The final score for playing partner A: 937 points, 18 games won, 3 games lost. Playing partners B, C, D together lost a total of 14 games."

If I understand correctly:
We count the wins of each player and reduce it by the number of losses, in the example for A: 18-3 = 15. He adds 15*50=750 points.
Additionally we sum up the losses of his opponents B and C (let's change the example to a 3 player BGA table) and add 40 points per loss - here it would be another 14*40=560 points. So A finally scores 937 + 750 + 560 = 2.247 points?

The 937 points have been calculated according the standard scoring.

If this is a variant of the standard scoring, we should add a third option ("Standard, tournament"). If it works for both scoring variants, we may add another option ("Tournament scoring" - ON / OFF).

What about games with pub rules (Ramsch, Contra/Re). Allow the tournament scoring, or should this be restricted to games without pub rules?

Could you confirm? Sorry, but at the moment I cannot read this whole document.

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fuzzycoatimundi
Posts: 17
Joined: 18 January 2016, 04:10

Re: Tournament Scoring

Post by fuzzycoatimundi » 12 April 2020, 22:43

Your understanding is correct for our 3-player tables. The example in the ISkO document is for a 4-player table and so used a 30-point bonus per opponent's lost game, but we would use 40 points per opponent's lost game here on BGA.

You could implement the additional scoring for each game rather than the end of the series (similar to duplicate Bridge scoring):
- if declarer wins, they score their usual game score +50
- if declarer loses, they lose their usual doubled game score -50, and their opponents each score +40

Or do the calculation as you described at the end of the series.

I'm not sure if it works with both BGA scoring variants, but it probably makes the most sense being a variant of the standard scoring only.

I think tournament scoring should be restricted to games without Ramsch and Contra/Re, but others might disagree?

Thank you for looking into this!

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DrKarotte
Posts: 254
Joined: 22 September 2015, 23:42

Re: Tournament Scoring

Post by DrKarotte » 12 April 2020, 23:27

Thank you for the quick reply.

If we allow the combination with pub rules, the question occurs how to handle Ramsch games, as there is not one winner and two losers, but the opposite (in fact there is no winner at all).

Personally I would prefer the restriction to standard scoring without pub rules, but on the other side having restrictions where they are not really needed is not the best idea, too. It would be handed to the players to set up their game, allowing some uncommon combinations.

One possibility could be to re-work the game setup.
First you have the choice: "Tournament Skat" - YES/NO.

YES means: classic scoring with tournament addition, no pub rules.

If set to OFF, additional options become available and you can choose the combinations classic/alternative scoring (both without tournament mode), and select the pub rules you like. The good thing is, that later we could offer the tournament scoring addition here again, if people want it.

Technically this should be possible, but I have never done this ;-)

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