Carnegie is now in Beta

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paramesis
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Carnegie is now in Beta

Post by paramesis »

Carnegie is a new heavy economic Euro designed by Xavier Georges, with art by Ian O'Toole, and published by Quined Games.

Carnegie Game Page
Carnegie on Kickstarter (campaign relaunches 01/20/2021)
Carnegie on Board Game Geek
Carnegie on Quined Games website

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Carnegie was inspired by the life of Andrew Carnegie who was born in Scotland in 1835. Andrew Carnegie and his parents emigrated to the United States in 1848. Although he started his career as a telegraphist, his role as one of the major players in the rise of the United States’ steel industry made him one of the richest men in the world and an icon of the American dream.

Andrew Carnegie was also a benefactor and philanthropist; upon his death in 1919, more than $350 million of his wealth was bequeathed to various foundations, with another $30 million going to various charities. His endowments created nearly 2,500 free public libraries that bear his name: the Carnegie Libraries.

During the game you will recruit and manage employees, expand your business, invest in real estate, produce and sell goods, and create transport chains across the United States; you may even work with important personalities of the era. Perhaps you will even become an illustrious benefactor who contributes to the greatness of his country through deeds and generosity!

The game takes place over 20 rounds; players will each have one turn per round. On each turn, the active player will choose one of four actions, which the other players may follow. The goal of the game is to build the most prestigious company, as symbolized by victory points.
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Robin of Barnoldby
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Re: Carnegie is now in Beta

Post by Robin of Barnoldby »

Hi
Great news this is available now.
Is the solo version up and running as well with the AI Andrew?
If so how to I get onto the solo version as the system keeps asking me to choose a friend to play.
Th@nks
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African Grey
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Re: Carnegie is now in Beta

Post by African Grey »

To play the solo game against Andrew you have to play Carnegie in Training mode
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paramesis
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Re: Carnegie is now in Beta

Post by paramesis »

Solo mode is fully implemented!

To play a solo game, follow these steps:
  1. Go to the Play Now link at the top of the screen, find Carnegie, and create a table (Real-Time or Turn-Based doesn't matter*)
  2. Change the Game mode in the left side to "Training Mode"
  3. Change the player count to say "I want between 1 and 1 players"
  4. Click Open Table to other players, then click "Start Game". This last step is unfortunately not very intuitive on the BGA framework side at the moment.
*For solo games, the only important difference is that real time games time out if nothing happens for a few hours, so if you don't expect to finish all at once, choose Turn Based. You can always change from Real-Time to turn based after the game starts.
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Staberinde
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Re: Carnegie is now in Beta

Post by Staberinde »

One suggestion for a variant for the game on BGA would be a "Fast Mode" where certain steps are performed simultaneously.

The developer himself has suggested that some actions may be performed simultaneously on BGG.
One criticism I sometimes read about the game is the length of the games. It's true that the learning curve of the game is real, and the first game can be difficult. But don't worry, the real boardgame can be much faster than BGA, because some actions (such as human resources) are easily played simultaneously.
  • Collect Income would be a stage I would suggest as simultaneous. However if any research were claimed from the Midwest it would have to be applied in turn order afterwards (or using the system suggested below).

    Also during the Collect Income phase it might be worth considering automatically returning all workers that are on the last possible space along the transport tracks (last 2 spaces if a player has already reached the end). I cannot think of any reason not to return these workers as I see no benefit at all to keeping them on the board. You can no longer improve their income return and they gain no end of game VPs while on the board.
  • Donation could be done simultaneously as below:
    1. First gets to freely choose a donation
    2. 2nd player chooses a donation and optionally a second choice
    3. 3rd/4th player choose a donation and up to 2/3 additional choices
    4. Game assigns the highest available choice in turn order.
    5. If all choices are unavailable then player is reimbursed cash.
    This would speed things up significantly in a turn based game. However while it is simultaneous it may actually lead to a longer donation round in real time games at higher player counts
  • Human Resources is the most obvious suggestion for making simultaneous as there is no action that would interfere with anyone's move. However this does remove a significant strategic advantage later players would have in the non-simultaneous version, being able to tailor their moves based on the previous player(s) choices.
  • Management is a problem due "Strategic Planning" as people cannot simultaneously buy departments that have limited supply.
  • Construction is a problem as placing buildings cannot be done simultaneously.
  • Research & Development is a problem due to only one player allowed on the last spot of the Transport track. One possible suggestion for a simultaneous version to consider might be:
    1. Players perform all their R&D departments and generate, spend and submit their reasearch points simultaneously (Most research turns will end here)
    2. Any rare duplicate claims of the last Train Track spots would be won by the earliest player in turn order
    3. The others would then be reset back on that track to where they were at the beginning of the turn and appropriately reimbursed in research points, then another round of research spending would occur with remaining research points
    4. Continue until a last spot on a Train Track is not claimed by two people at once
    This could potentially lead to rare R&D turns that are longer than the current version, but the vast majority of research turns will not involve one or more cases of duplicate claims
As mentioned the above changes do have additional strategic implications but may still be a preferred option for what may be a significantly reduced game length, especially when playing in turn based mode.
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paramesis
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Re: Carnegie is now in Beta

Post by paramesis »

Thanks for some very detailed suggestions. I should note the designer’s comments were referring specifically to playing in person, which does also imply a less competitive, calculating style of gameplay than you might find on BGA. I expounded on this thought in a completely unrelated BGG thread, and will share my observations here.

The BGA implementation follows the rules as written, which are unambiguous about the timing for the Events and Use Departments phases (page 8).
I have noted that it would be possible to add simultaneous play to some actions as a game option, but have not made it a priority, as it introduces a lot of situations that get messier the more I think about them.

For example, consider a case where HR takes place simultaneously. The player who is third in turn order realizes it's very important to pay attention to what the player second in turn order is doing because the second player will call the action next round. The rules imply that the third player has a right to see what HR actions the second player will take. This is an important part of the game, that might not be as apparent to first time players who are joining a table without realizing what this option implies.

Time is added to all players' clocks and the simultaneous HR action begins, but the second player took previous turns quicker and had more time reserved than the third player. The second player could then run out the clock, and the third player would be forced to make a decision or go over time and risk being ejected. The second player can now prepare for an action in a way that severely disadvantages the third player. If there are no time limits on the table, you could end up with a stalemate, where no player wants to put themselves in a relatively disadvantaged position taking their HR action first.

There are one-off, convoluted solutions to cases like this, such as adding a "wait for previous player" button, but it ends up being more trouble than it's worth, since the rules already govern how this is supposed to be resolved. The same can just as well apply to all of the other actions that have been proposed as simultaneous. I might do an RnD action differently based on what others are preparing to do.

A simultaneous variant will likely come across to new players as a default option, and the primary objective of this adaptation is to provide an opportunity for everyone to form an impression of the unadulterated, original game. I haven’t done a deep dive to verify this, but Carnegie doesn’t seem longer in turn based mode than many games of comparable weight.
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Staberinde
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Re: Carnegie is now in Beta

Post by Staberinde »

A simultaneous variant will likely come across to new players as a default option, and the primary objective of this adaptation is to provide an opportunity for everyone to form an impression of the unadulterated, original game. I haven’t done a deep dive to verify this, but Carnegie doesn’t seem longer in turn based mode than many games of comparable weight.
Fair enough, I can get on board with keeping things Rules as Written esp while the game is in KS stage to give people the true experience of what they may be buying.

I think we may be on a different pages in terms of simultaneous actions. In the ways I listed I was imagining the simulatenous moves happening essentially hidden to other players with all choices revealed only once all players finished their turns. This would prevent someone from timing out other players in order to gain extra information. Of course this method would only be doable in the BGA version and not the live version.

I agree and mentioned this would change the strategy significantly in that currently players further in the turn order have an advantage in information for workplacement that they would not have if everyones HR turn happened simultaneously and hidden. For this reason it should definately be considered a variant.

Should stress, I dont expect any of these suggestions to be implemented, just sharing ideas/brain farts :P. I really appreciate all the hard work that has gone into this thus far and have enjoyed the games I've played of it. I think I saw the developers comment and it got me thinking as to how you would actually implement it in practice. The ways I listed above were the best I personally came up with and still had many caveats to make it work and ofc other people may think of better suggestions than the ones i listed for simultaneous actions.
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Moondy
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Re: Carnegie is now in Beta

Post by Moondy »

Is there a clear definition of small cities? There is a clear definition of major cities and it also refers to bonus giving small towns; so are the rest small cities?
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paramesis
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Re: Carnegie is now in Beta

Post by paramesis »

There are three types of cities:
Major cities, which have 5 project sites and 1 or 2 "connection points".
Medium cities, which have 3 project sites.
Small cities, which have only 1 project site. These are sometimes also referred to as small towns, but these terms are interchangeable. Most small cities award a transport bonus when a project is built on them, indicated by the exclamation point over a railroad track symbol.
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Moondy
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Re: Carnegie is now in Beta

Post by Moondy »

Does anybody live a similar loading problem like this recently?
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