BETA: Arena mode (Season 0 - BETA)

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kicekjuve
Posts: 12
Joined: 01 April 2018, 09:54

Re: Coming soon: Arena mode

Post by kicekjuve »

I see that tournaments got Arena Mode Experimental option now. Any info on that?
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Velvetlad77
Posts: 7
Joined: 12 November 2014, 07:43

Re: Coming soon: Arena mode

Post by Velvetlad77 »

Hello, I also have a couple of questions araising.

1. Will there be a specific pace implemented or imposed for Areana Games ?
I feel more in favour to only open it for real time games, because there will be time-win cheatery otherwise. I set up 24 moves / day and I claim on time, +1 (all the more that opponents are not selected but 'found')

2. Will tourney games count for Arena? If tournaments are not a fighting mode, then what else is it? :)

3. How draws will be managed? 0 point to each?
I'm grabbing the occasion to comment what happens in case of draws for single elimination tournaments (not all round or swiss). So far, the person who breaks through is randomly determined. I think it would be more fair to grant victory to weakest elo of both competitors, because the game performance is higher

Anyway I am curious about it being implemented, and I think it's good for competing
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Curling
Posts: 61
Joined: 30 October 2018, 15:57

Re: Coming soon: Arena mode

Post by Curling »

When will it start ?

😊
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sprockitz
Posts: 664
Joined: 23 October 2014, 02:22

Re: Coming soon: Arena mode

Post by sprockitz »

Related question...about prestige

Are you guys also going to fix prestige from past tournaments, right now some of the values are outrageous. For example this Dungeon Twister tournament gave out 9750 prestige and had 2 participants! https://boardgamearena.com/tournament?id=33294

Really hope this gets fixed because right now people are top 5 all time prestige by just playing 1 game with a small number of players and hosting these tournaments that give out disproportionate prestige.
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Waterd103
Posts: 40
Joined: 16 February 2014, 23:08

Re: Coming soon: Arena mode

Post by Waterd103 »

"soon"
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sourisdudesert
Administrateur
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Joined: 23 January 2010, 22:02

Re: Coming soon: Arena mode

Post by sourisdudesert »

Waterd103 wrote: 29 September 2019, 10:08"soon"
This is the reason why, as a rule of thumb, we do not make any "available soon" announcement on BGA (or announce future games in advance). We publish games / features when they are ready. Period.

For Arena mode we made an exception because we want you to understand the reasons behind the recent features (the new trophy awarding screen, the new lobby, ...).

You may have noticed that we had a lot of work on the new lobby, and many adjustments were needed. We took one more month to make the new lobby comfortable for you, so - logically - the Arena mode has been postponed by one month. And if it happens that the next needed feature also need one more month, it's going to happen again.
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Curling
Posts: 61
Joined: 30 October 2018, 15:57

Re: Coming soon: Arena mode

Post by Curling »

sourisdudesert wrote: 30 September 2019, 08:25
Waterd103 wrote: 29 September 2019, 10:08"soon"
This is the reason why, as a rule of thumb, we do not make any "available soon" announcement on BGA (or announce future games in advance). We publish games / features when they are ready. Period.

For Arena mode we made an exception because we want you to understand the reasons behind the recent features (the new trophy awarding screen, the new lobby, ...).

You may have noticed that we had a lot of work on the new lobby, and many adjustments were needed. We took one more month to make the new lobby comfortable for you, so - logically - the Arena mode has been postponed by one month. And if it happens that the next needed feature also need one more month, it's going to happen again.
Don't worry.if I asked, it's just because I am excited. I don't complain...

Thanks for all the great work !
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Waterd103
Posts: 40
Joined: 16 February 2014, 23:08

Re: Coming soon: Arena mode

Post by Waterd103 »

While I understand that point, It doesn't have to be announced as "soon", but could be, "planned for the future". So I don't enter every day with the high hopes today is the day.
soon to me implies "anytime now", that is in the next 48hs or maybe 1 week. When you start to enter the 1 month or more territory, i feel soon is just miscommunication.

announce "coming soon" or "never announce anything" is a false dichotomy.
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geoffmacknish
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Joined: 15 February 2015, 05:37

Re: Coming soon: Arena mode

Post by geoffmacknish »

Hi!

With match-making not allowing you to play people more than 2 levels from you, it may be hard to even get a game.
What is there to prevent people from reaching a high level and then not playing? This happens with ELO now.
There needs to be a stronger mechanism to gradually erode ELO or Elite Arena mode ELO from people who don’t continue to play.

I would suggest using a weighted ELO system like the world’s tennis rankings. This is weighted towards your more recent performances. Performances from a day/week/month/year ago should be weighted less.

Also, ELO and Elite Arena ELO need to fairly take into account when people are just having an unusally good or bad game. If you lose a game to people ranked lower than you, your ELO gets hammered. Everyone has off days and spectacular days and these should not overly influence your ELO. Your top and bottom results should be discarded when calculating ELO. Keep your amazingly good results in a “trophy cabinet” where you can proudly remember the day you walloped someone way better than you, but it should not affect your ELO until you consistently beat others ranked above you. Your ELO should not bounce around with individual good or bad results. It should be a truer indication of your ability than it currently is.

Try using multipliers by recent weeks/months. So the most recent month results would be multiplied by 12, last month’s results by 11, then x10, x9, x8, ... , x2, x1 then all results over one year old are x0 as they no longer reflect your current ability. And remember to discount the 2 top and 2 bottom results each month. You can safely assume they are an aberration. If you must include them, please don’t weight them higher than 50% of other results for that month.

I hope this sparks some useful discussion about using a weighted ELO system. Not just for the Elite level in the coming Arena, but also in the normal ELO rankings. They just don’t reflect players’ ability accurately enough.

Cheers,

Geoff
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sprockitz
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Joined: 23 October 2014, 02:22

Re: Coming soon: Arena mode

Post by sprockitz »

Geoff...

arena mode is already only 3 months, so stopping playing after getting a high Elo is a non-issue...and eroding in general doesn't make sense.

And to your other points...multipliers to weight more recent performances are not needed. The system already weights recent performances more heavily because it applies your games in the order they finish making the most recently finished game have the most weight.

Having a bad day or bad game should effect your Elo and EAS, no reason to discard best or worst performances. A single head to head win or loss has at most a 20 point impact, if you want major Elo change you have to consistently win (or lose) against those players. Elo is already kind of slow as it is, I've played 100+ times in many of these games and am still consistently moving up in Elo...how long will it take for my Elo to reach a near steady state...seems more than 100 games is kinda ridiculously slow...so I don't see any benefit to making it react slower...plus in arena in 3 months there is no way the top players can reach peak Elo without playing way more than I personally have time for...so it is already being changed to awarding people who play the most.

I agree finding games will be problematic for a lot of the less popular games (whether that's the least popular 25% or 80% or some other number remains to be seen).

On eroding, Elo should represent how good you are at a game, if you attained that Elo then you deserve it, you shouldn't lose it because you aren't playing the game. Yes you shouldn't be a seasonal champion every 3 months if you aren't continually playing it (and at a high level), but you aren't mysteriously losing significant skill at it because you aren't continuing to play. If you come back from taking a break and have lost skill at the game, then your Elo will correct itself when you start playing again. And since Elo doesn't matter for any rankings it is best to leave it alone from any Erosion.
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