Good Ol' GalFed

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andycupid
Posts: 44
Joined: 31 July 2015, 14:22

Good Ol' GalFed

Post by andycupid »

So I read the debates on BGG about our beloved card Galactic Federation, the 6 cost dev which gives you a -2 bonus when developing and 1vp for each dev + 2vp for each 6 dev. The game developer believes the card is perfectly fine, albeit many people arguing otherwise. I haven't seen much discussion about this right here, but what are players' thoughts on this card?

See, I think it's a busted card, I'd much rather it be removed. Please recall the many games where your opponent plays it on the first few moves and spams devs till the end of the game. Losing to this strategy is rather brainless. I did this a number of times myself, and could quite effortlessly cruise to the win, with the exception of some outrageous draws that happen way less than you'd expect. For one, there are many cards that string the whole strategy together, from investment credits+public works+interstellar bank (da culprit) in the base set (well, and industrial robots), to galactic bankers+galactic developers in expansions, to galactic power brokers later on. (I'm not mentioning the a.a. or Xeno expansions because these require more skill to pilot and double develop is more likely to get punished) They provide endless card draw, and coupled with research labs or trade league (most players who spam this strategy don't even know the trick), it's not really easy to run out of cards. Then, there are some devs which boost the strategy even more, one being new economy (who doesn't need a consume strategy to shine), another being military for free settles, so on and so forth. It's quite the flawless strategy. Before you say, hey, it definitely requires skill to pilot, wait a minute. I admit that's true. Finding the right time to play galfed is arguably the most important thing, and figuring out the timing requires about as much skill as selling with alpha centauri move #1. (To be specific, played after a sell with +1/+1 or coupled with investment credits.) And, yes, this doesn't auto win games, but it wins like 90% of games, which is too high for a shallow strategy. (Think of aggressive strategies in card games but with card draw)

What I would like is not to kill the card, but to fix the discount to -1. I think this alone is enough to hinder the strategy. Think of this, say GalFed comes down turn 3~5, and 6~8 devs are played later on, this saves up to 6~8 cards. The thing about this strategy is that it somehow doesn't need an engine to draw, and I believe it's primarily because the discount bonus is too much. 6 cost devs now cost 3, and the card alone can net probably around 10 points. Now, think of Galactic bankers. It's discount is only one (albeit a better ability), it has a consume power (but requires fuel), and the payoff isn't that high when you don't draw Investment credits or Interstellar Bank, netting around 7~8 only. Fixing the discount would still leave the card relatively playable and powerful, but requires better hand-management to pilot.

We can draw some comparisons. The other universally good 6 dev is Galactic Survey-SETI, and it has a really niche power. Yet another is New Economy, arguably one of the best 6 devs in the game. It has a decent ability that draws one, the thing is you don't really play New Economy early for the draw effect; you'd probably set up a consume engine first, so it doesn't do much. Obviously it nets many points, but on its own it does little. Then in terms of similar ability, Replicant Robots is one of the best, but players should be aware that playing into an empty hand is dangerous and costs a lot of momentum (hence Terraforming Robots being good). GalFed is a strategy on its own, but it has support cards, so it's not like that overpowered discount is required to win. I'd much rather it come without the discount at all, that would be a testament to the player's skill, and that SETI doesn't discount anyway.

This is a really nice game with multiple strategies. Hand management is key, as well as reacting or predicting the opponent's moves. There are some oppressive strategies, yes, such as alpha centauri into mining conglomerate, but simply running this engine can't win the game, and double develop/settle early on counters this quite well. Many others require much more setup, or some good hands that come once every ten games, but almighty GalFed doesn't need any of it. From a competitive standpoint, there is a lot to consider with each move, and I praise being defeated by skill. The natural luck factor provides a bit of disruption and fun, and we should be losing a bit here and there because of this. I don't really mind losing to bad draws though. I do mind losing to effortless play.

These are some of my thoughts after 3500+ plays, I wonder what other experts think?
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RicardoRix
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Joined: 29 April 2012, 23:43

Re: Good Ol' GalFed

Post by RicardoRix »

There's always going to be a 'best card of the game'. Which one do you want it to be? Would you want to ban/restrict that one next.

I'm not quite an expert, and I don't know of the discussion, nor have I knowingly experienced it.
I did play a bit with the #2 ranked dude for some time, lost mostly of course and knew that there was even more to the game than I knew, he seemed to favour Mining Conglomerate as being an over powered card. Quite often there's a downside with predictable play.
Maybe you get all the investment credits+public works+interstellar bank, and he doesn't.

Now that you've mentioned it, it does seem a rather obvious strategy. I've always liked the card but that hasn't meant that I've always just played it. It would also seem that you can't just take away all the other rather obvious straightforward cards and tactics that are played in the beginning. Maybe the best thing about the game is that there always seems to be options in any situation even if you don't win in the end.
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andycupid
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Joined: 31 July 2015, 14:22

Re: Good Ol' GalFed

Post by andycupid »

I do think Mining Conglomerate is somewhat overpowered, and there is this super annoying strategy of sell+produce for multiple rounds to find another rare elements world and some bonus production world+consume power. The thing about it is that is does slightly too much in one card, but overall I think killing the +1 sell may somehow be enough (taking expansions into account). Not saying it needs a nerf, and I'm not that good to be making such calls, but it can use a discussion imo.

From a design standpoint, universally unsynergistic cards are not too great, so SETI and GalFed that dumps points regardless of what the board state looks like are rather underwhelming. I know of a player/playtester who removes the cards as his house rule because of this. The thing is SETI at least doesn't buff you too substantially when you play it early, and while it isn't encouraged to throw GalFed early, it's drawbacks are less prevalent. Some games I've played lately composed of opponents playing random stuff, e.g., going for production worlds at the start, selling a bit, finds he's got no consumer powers but a bit of military assets, plays them, then somehow lands GalFed into a strong late game. So it has a bonus so it can work half-decently in early game, it earns pts universally so it's guaranteed 8~10 vp value in late game. It doesn't need a defined strategy to shine. The player doesn't need to be drafting skillfully. On the other hand, conglomerate requires a bit of reactive instinct to pilot, and while it is a snowball in high level games, at least messing around it mindlessly can't win you games. GalFed, however, allows this to happen, hence my reasoning above.
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ksasaki
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Joined: 08 October 2012, 22:12

Re: Good Ol' GalFed

Post by ksasaki »

I don't think GalFed is terribly overpowered, if anything Pan-Galactic Research is even worse dropped early because it covers so many phases and gives you that increased max hand size which is a huge advantage. With GalFed at least you need something like interstellar bank, galactic developers or public works, it doesn't "feed itself" so to speak, so if you pop it down and have no card draw, it's kind of useless and you are just praying your explore +1 / +1 will unearth something good, whereas if you pop down pan galactic you get an improved explore to find useful cards + the always useful produce leech, which if you opponent is doing some produce / consume engine you get some side benefit to.

I think the worst card in the current arena season's rules is improved logistics by far. It's such a busted card if you have a half-decent military or some cost-reducer like terraforming robots, alpha centauri or replicant robots. A lot of the goals you can win easily with it like the most mining / novelty worlds one, or the race to 8 cards, or 4 goods / 4 production worlds.

Mining conglom is also powerful paired with alpha centauri or the other starting mining production world which escapes my mind at the moment. I'd say it's powerful, but not completely busted like it was in the base game.

Double develop vs improved logistics is a decent battle, but if your opponent has one of those two and you don't, you are most likely screwed.

I'm a big proponent of bringing back Brink of War, because it gave you a lot more options (and I cannot emphasize enough how much the turn 1 search can be a lifesaver from an otherwise miserable starting hand / worlds combination that is just missing 1 card to be serviceable).
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hiei
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Joined: 02 October 2019, 05:28

Re: Good Ol' GalFed

Post by hiei »

I would say that GalFed is not overpowered in any expansion. It is pretty good in the base game, above average in the first expansion arc, below average in AA and situational in XI.

In general, placing GalFed in the base game means that you are not investing in consume powers, so if your opponent nails them (which they should do most of the time since it is the dominating strategy)m then he can beat you as long as you cant get card enough card bonusses to keep developing or trade league. Still, a solid develop strat usually counters consume pretty well if you get GalFed, mabe that is why it seems op, since it beats the most consistant strat in the game.

In the first Arc it is difficult to dominate with GalFed early, and the heavy develop strategies use GalFed at the end most of the time. The most common use of GalFed at least in my case is to use it as a bridge to place other 2 6-cost dev that sinergize with my strategy
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Retired Actuary
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Joined: 19 April 2020, 19:50

Re: Good Ol' GalFed

Post by Retired Actuary »

Based on game statistics, GalFed is highly powerful up through a couple of expansions, but Brink of War has a different “overpowered” card. It would be interesting to playtest a game with a -1 development bonus instead of -2...

http://www.burn.im/rftgstats/
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Mark Ellis
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Joined: 10 April 2020, 07:27

Re: Good Ol' GalFed

Post by Mark Ellis »

I tend to agree with the original post on the key points. For me, GalFed is easily the most annoying card to lose to 2-player because it feels like victory is largely gifted to your opponent. It's not that interesting to win with for the same reasons. In the before-times playing with a physical copy, we used to remove it. Others have far more games under their belt than me so my opinion is based on a relatively small sample (c.100 games) and perhaps I under-appreciate some available counter-strategies, but GalFed has always felt overpowered to me and has decided the outcome of 4/5 of my recent arena games (AA). It is deflating to see it come out and recently prompted an opponent to concede after I placed it. Adjusting to -1 would be interesting, though sounds like the debate is academic for BGA purposes. Nice to be able to vent a little though!
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nandblock
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Joined: 23 December 2015, 02:13

Re: Good Ol' GalFed

Post by nandblock »

New Economy is better, and assuming you have at least a few relevant planets / developments, Mining League, Free Trade Association or (in the revised version) Merchant Guild are also excellent.

There's always going to be a "best card" in a game like RFTG with largely unique cards. In games with a high level of randomness the issue is really: 1) will the card immediately win you the game? (answer: no, you still need luck and your opponent can mess you up); 2) over the long run, will skill beat luck? (answer: yes). With any card game, you need to be willing to put up with a few "unfair" games, just like in a trick-taking game you sometimes just get a lot of bad hands and have to shrug it off.
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Wonderful Plays
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Joined: 20 September 2018, 13:06

Re: Good Ol' GalFed

Post by Wonderful Plays »

Retired Actuary wrote: 09 October 2020, 17:36 Based on game statistics, GalFed is highly powerful up through a couple of expansions, but Brink of War has a different “overpowered” card. It would be interesting to playtest a game with a -1 development bonus instead of -2...

http://www.burn.im/rftgstats/
The stats are the heaviest argument for me.
In AA Galfed slammed in the end after doing the research strat galactic investors feels very bad to loose too.
I think the card is not going to get changed, but it appears to be overperforming.
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Patapouf1
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Joined: 28 March 2020, 03:16

Re: Good Ol' GalFed

Post by Patapouf1 »

Its even worse with alien artifact... dev spamming to a whole new level with gal investors and all the new worlds with dev powers... I really miss xeno lol
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