Dragon's Lair -- your feelings?

[Wonderful Plays]

The worst part about this card is there are a lot of setups where this is the best strategy to go for. And the 1st player almost always get 1st dibs. This game needs an expansion or a patch.

[Phoenixcz]

I agree with Sohel that this card is not too powerfull. It is a good card and a solid strategy to get it on the first round, but it doesn't mean easy win against experienced players. I can beat this strategy of an opponent in most situations. There are ways to prevent them buying it on the first round, to get more points from other cards, to get more gold from other cards (especially stone, athanor, dwarven mines, ring of midas and sacrifical pit), to attack and drain their gold, to mess with monument selection with seer and hawk or just exploit their mistakes and steal more valuable monuments for yourself.

Yes, i think that games when bestiary is in play are little bit more interesting and more variable, but is is mainly by bestiary itself.

But there is one place of power which should be balanced in the opposite way and that is cursed forge. There are some situations where you can use it well, but in comparison with the rest of places not so much. Most of the time only for 1 base point with 0-2 points investment in the last round when there is no better option. It is so costly to store points on it. Cursed forge should have some additional effect on its own or investment should be in better ratio, like 2 red+1 gold to 2 points.

[jimmyjojangles]

The expert players who say they can beat it given exceptional circumstances like certain cards just proves it is an easy way to get a large advantage. If everyone would pick it first given the chance it proves it’s at least a little out of balance with the rest of the game and it encourages people to discard 3 cards first turn which kind of takes away from the richness of the game. We all have tremendous respect for the game designer it doesnt mean that dragons lair doesn’t need a tiny bit of nerfing, maybe just a little? So given a choice there’s a chance someone goes for a different pop when it’s available? I mean come on let’s be honest.

[Wonderful Plays]

It's also worth pointing out that it only holds true if the best players are able to beat this strategy against other best players, not players who are lower rated.

I think it is beatable, when there are other options avaiable, but sometimes, it's just the best strat after the draft and those games are very sad.
For me this game needs an expansion here, base game has too many edge cases that have been found and there is very little room for improvisation.

[Phoenixcz]

The expert players who say they can beat it given exceptional circumstances like certain cards just proves it is an easy way to get a large advantage.

I have named only some other ways to generate large sums of gold, two of them are another places of power - so at least one of them is in a game with 75% probability (and one of them is the opposite place of power of catacombs, another way to get a lot of points quickly). But there are other ways i mentioned.

Of course i can get crappy cards and that way is hard to beat a player with much better cards both games with or without the lair.

[Wonderful Plays]

https://boardgamearena.com/3/resarcana?table=163578294

Example of the game decided almost entirely who goes first. He can get the Dragon Lair and use it as the best option on this table.
This is between two players with 80% winrate. We both agreed it was decided turn 1.

[Phoenixcz]

https://boardgamearena.com/3/resarcana?table=163578294

Example of the game decided almost entirely who goes first. He can get the Dragon Lair and use it as the best option on this table.
This is between two players with 80% winrate. We both agreed it was decided turn 1.

Well, i don't consider myself expert player and i can't say i would win, but i would play differently. I would go for the pit. With dragon teeth and wind dragon it could work. On draft i would take sea serpent on first take and then i would take chalice. Then teeth. You paid full price of 8 essence dragon on second turn even that you had bridle and dragon teeth in your cards. That was a risky move. You could knew that he had tree of life, he could buy temple or just collect some life essences, so you spent 8 essences on just 1 point.

[Wonderful Plays]

I played it to punish double gold gain. There is a chance he doesn't have tree on life on hand. And again I'd like you to think how different this game is if I start the game. Suddenly with witch and dragon lair it's an easy win.

[Wonderful Plays]

https://boardgamearena.com/6/resarcana?table=163999475
Another one in the same way - Player 1 just wins the game on the spot. If anyone has a brilliant idea to counter (without big gold strategy or witch + catacombs) I'm all ears. But honestly this just feels super broken.

[wakeywakey]

https://boardgamearena.com/table?table=164364316

Opponent took Dragon Lair, Alchemist Tower & Catacombs.
I rinsed Tree of Life + Ring of Midas to grab Pyramids, Statue and a 2 pointer.

Lair is very strong, but not unbeatable.