Error in game implementation?

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Lotus Blossom
Posts: 27
Joined: 12 November 2017, 01:45

Re: Error in game implementation?

Postby Lotus Blossom » 26 July 2018, 21:10

Thanks, I've thumbed it

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RicardoRix
Posts: 249
Joined: 29 April 2012, 23:43

Re: Error in game implementation?

Postby RicardoRix » 27 July 2018, 00:05

I don't think the rules are 100% clear.

rules wrote:All cards remaining in the final player’s hand and the Haggis are captured
by the player who went out first.


That *could* refer to the cards being 'captured' in the same way as other cards captured during trick play.
The problem with this statement though is other statements that repeatedly use and stress the term "Points cards captured during trick play"

rules wrote:Remember to record the number of cards
(including wild cards) in the remaining player’s hand.


I assume means for the 5 points per card.

Lotus Blossom
Posts: 27
Joined: 12 November 2017, 01:45

Re: Error in game implementation?

Postby Lotus Blossom » 28 July 2018, 00:52

Written rules could be clearer, but the game designer did clarify elsewhere, as stated previously. So I think this is definitely a bug.

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nandblock
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Joined: 23 December 2015, 02:13

Re: Error in game implementation?

Postby nandblock » 28 July 2018, 15:23

Yeah that is definitely poor wording in the rules, and probably the source of the error in the BGA implementation.

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EllieK
Posts: 61
Joined: 12 June 2014, 00:21

Re: Error in game implementation?

Postby EllieK » 08 August 2018, 17:51

There is no error in the implementation. The rules clearly state...

All cards remaining in the final player’s hand and the Haggis are captured
by the player who went out first. Remember to record the number of cards
(including wild cards) in the remaining player’s hand.


This only means that the set-aside cards, called the Haggis, and the cards in your opponent's hand are considered 'captured' by the player that has gone out. As has been pointed out in earlier posts -- in a two player game eight cards go into the Haggis which means the Haggis at most is worth eight points.

These newly 'captured' cards are then scored in the end game scoring per the rules for item 2 below --

Points are scored for 1) Cards left in your opponents’ hand, 2) Points cards
captured during trick play and 3) Bets.


I think the post that has caused all the confusion is this one from BGG, which is a response to an earlier post suggesting BGA's AI could tell the average value of score the hidden Haggis --

You've learned the game by playing it at boardgamearena, but the implementation at there misrepresents the scoring for the Haggis: it combines the Haggis score with the score for any point cards remaining in the opponents hand.


That post does not suggest that combining of the Haggis with the captured opponent's cards is incorrect but instead that BGA"s AI does not break the two different amounts separately -- meaning you don't have a metric to track average points in the Haggis. Someone else then correctly points out that the average score of the Haggis is (HaggisSize/2).

No need for a rules change. Everything seems to be correct. I think if the Haggis was displayed at the end of each round the implementation of the rule would be clearer.

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nandblock
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Joined: 23 December 2015, 02:13

Re: Error in game implementation?

Postby nandblock » 09 August 2018, 00:43

OK, so the scoring is correct but the account of the scoring in the sidebar is incorrect?

Yes, all this confusion would be massively reduced if the wording was changed and the haggis and remaining cards in the opponent's hand were revealed at the end of the round (and not wrongly lumped together as "the haggis").

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EllieK
Posts: 61
Joined: 12 June 2014, 00:21

Re: Error in game implementation?

Postby EllieK » 09 August 2018, 01:05

I believe it reports correctly. I checked your last game of Haggis and it seems the cards were being scored correctly and the system reported the score correctly as well.

You wrote....
At the end of the round whoever goes out first gets all the points from the cards in the haggis, plus 5 points per card left over in the opponent's hand. And both players score whatever point cards they captured. But the error in the BGA implementation is that it ALSO seems to be giving the player who goes out the points from leftover cards in their opponent's hand, ON TOP of the 5 points per card


Your observation is correct. A player who goes out gets the points from leftover cards, they are technically 'captured' cards, ON TOP of the five points per card. Both things should happen. Both things do happen. And both things are correctly reported (at least in replay mode, I'll have to check live reporting next time I play a game).

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nandblock
Posts: 100
Joined: 23 December 2015, 02:13

Re: Error in game implementation?

Postby nandblock » 09 August 2018, 01:20

Urgh. Just noticing that on the player aids with the print version of the game, it just says "Cards in Haggis captured by first to go out" .... Thus either conflating the haggis and captured cards, or else contradicting the rulebook. Clearly Sean Ross needed someone to edit his rules :S


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