Max Sabs option for Saboteur

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Keri Cash
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Re: Max Sabs option for Saboteur

Post by Keri Cash » 16 September 2018, 18:42

It seems that most players want this option, and the few who don't still agree there is a problem currently, and want some kind of solution. I like the max sabs option, but I might want to play without it sometimes too.

I think the +2 gold for saboteurs when a saboteur role card is left out is a great idea. I have heard many players talk about this, and want it.

I really like Wreckage's idea of the max sab option not effecting all 3 rounds. This just makes the percentage of 2 sab rounds fewer while still not knowing the exact number of of both worlds.

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Re: Max Sabs option for Saboteur

Post by HuHu92 » 16 September 2018, 20:49

sorry in advance that all my examples are going to be about 7 players sab game.

I completely disagree that the max sab option is something positive about the game. It is hard to be on 2v5 of course but it is not impossible to win it, so in my opinion just lower the percentage of the possibility to happen... if it is 50-50 now, make it 60-40 but putting 3 sure sabs in every single round is very boring either. I would prefer to have the randomness and 2v5 more rare than 3v4 all the time.

I also agree that giving more gold for winning 2v5 is needed. If it is harder to win it why not having better reward for winning it.

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Re: Max Sabs option for Saboteur

Post by EclipseAssassin » 16 September 2018, 20:57

Adjusting probability of a 2v5 game happening, but not completely eliminating it sounds good to me:)

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Re: Max Sabs option for Saboteur

Post by Pugs00 » 17 September 2018, 12:39

I agree something needs to be done. I’m not opposed to the max sab option. However, I think lowering the percentage of 2 vs 5 to 10%-20% happening would be the best change. Sometimes the randomness of whether it will be 2 or 3 sabs is fun. However, 3 sabs winning should get 2 gold each and 2 sabs winning should get 3 or 4 gold each.

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Re: Max Sabs option for Saboteur

Post by SMITHAAA SMITENNN » 17 September 2018, 14:55

Agreed. I am for the mandatory 3 sab option when there are 7 players. But to suit everyone's preferences, let's allow the host of the game to toggle the 3 sab option on / off. Hope BGA admin can help with this and give us the option to have 3 sabs or 2 sabs.

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Re: Max Sabs option for Saboteur

Post by Kzkz » 18 September 2018, 01:04


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Re: Max Sabs option for Saboteur

Post by lhexago » 18 September 2018, 15:34

in that case, it would probably be better to can chose the probability of having some sabs :P

it's the median solution between all points of view

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Re: Max Sabs option for Saboteur

Post by Yorgad » 18 September 2018, 19:49

Hey guys,

Just so you know, this "issue" was discussed a long time ago with BGA admins, here is the link:!forum/v ... t=saboteur

(note that the discussion is not relevant for Saboteur 2)

A few reminders:
- BGA usually do not implement variants that are not officially accepted by the game designer
- Do not forget that the game goal is to score more than your opponents. For instance, in case of 2vs5, it is assumed that diggers shall compete with each others in order to get more gold (the digger who reachs treasure get two gold cards, and so does the preceding digger); that's why you have the Competitive and the Slefish official variants
- The gameplay depends a lot on the number of players; A same improvement may not be relevant for 3, 5, 7 or 8 players (though I believe 7 players is the most balanced, but that's another debate)

That's said, I would rather propose the following three variants for a 7 players game:
- Switch to Competitive/Old Mine rewards system when diggers win a 2vs5 game
- Randomly assign a Selfish role to 1 out of the 5 diggers (by randomly, I mean the player can either be Selfish or a regular digger)
- Lower the odds for 2vs5 (currently 37,5% per round according to the rules): maybe somewhere between 15% and 25% ? (would be an ideal solution but hardly reproducible in real life I guess)

Last edited by Yorgad on 19 September 2018, 19:45, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Max Sabs option for Saboteur

Post by sharpclaw » 19 September 2018, 19:07

so you want sab to never be 2 less than the total number of digger

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Re: Max Sabs option for Saboteur

Post by Wreckage » 19 September 2018, 19:59

Yorgad, I did assume the bga cannot make a rule change without the publisher's permission. My hope is for the publisher to see this thread and allow these changes. Their game gets played here more than anywhere else, so hopefully they will let their fans enjoy it to the fullest.

Competitive scoring would probably help, but most players like Saboteur version 1 with cooperative dwarves.

I dont see selfish dwarf adding anything. Trying to deduce who is digger or sab is fun. Selfish dwarf cannot be deduced, therefore it is not interesting to try to deduce. This also makes a total luck component that is void of strategy.

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