Oasis Recover

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Tisaac
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Joined: 26 August 2014, 21:28

Re: Oasis Recover

Post by Tisaac »

diamant wrote: 24 June 2022, 14:07
Tisaac wrote: 24 June 2022, 12:53
Divadov wrote: 24 June 2022, 00:12 And how works? I can't recover units.
Order the unit, and during the move phase click on the unit and select heal instead of moving it (since you can't move and heal).
This procedure seems to me to conflict with the logic of Memoir 44 rules, if not with the rules themselves.

Indeed, the recovery of units is already possible with the command card Medics & Mechanics, for all scenarios and not only those with a special rule concerning Oasis or Hospital, and this recovery occurs during the combat phase.

An ordered unit that is in an oasis and does not move always has the opportunity to battle. There is no reason to force the player manipulating this unit to choose between caring for his unit and combat during the movement phase. Because this choice may depend on the results of the battles of other units also ordered during the turn.

Rolling dice in the movement phase is limited to certain terrain effects such as those of mines and frozen rivers.
Applying care in the oasis in the phase of movement therefore seems to me to be both restrictive and anti-ergonomic.
Therefore, I ask you to correct this and to provide for the recovery of units for care in the oasis only during the combat phase, thus possibly after other units have battled or carried out other special actions. Same with Hospital recovery
Any official confirmation for all your claims about healing timing ?
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diamant
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Re: Oasis Recover

Post by diamant »

Tisaac wrote: 24 June 2022, 18:43Any official confirmation for all your claims about healing timing ?
I did not find any clarification in the FAQ concerning the summary card Actions 10, and this seems normal to me because if I play Memoir 44 in real life, I do not need any such clarification.

Because if the text of this card does not specify whether recovery in the oasis must be provided during the movement phase or the combat phase, it is necessarily because the active player chooses the phase that suits him.

Now, you have certainly noted that a unit present in the oasis cannot perform this special action if an enemy unit is in an adjacent hex.
If several units are ordered and can battle, and the situation is that of a unit located in the oasis, having not moved, adjacent to a single enemy unit, you must admit that this enemy unit could be eliminated in the combat phase without the intervention of the unit present in the oasis. In this case, the unit in the oasis could perform the recovery action, action which it could not do during the movement phase.

As a result, your choice to perform special action 10 only during the movement phase would prevent the BGA simulation from playing Memory 44 as in real life, referring to the situation I have just described.

The ideal would be to be able to carry out special action 10 either in the movement phase or in the combat phase on BGA, but if you want to impose a phase for technical reasons, I think that this must be the combat phase.
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Tisaac
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Re: Oasis Recover

Post by Tisaac »

diamant wrote: 24 June 2022, 20:15
Tisaac wrote: 24 June 2022, 18:43Any official confirmation for all your claims about healing timing ?
I did not find any clarification in the FAQ concerning the summary card Actions 10, and this seems normal to me because if I play Memoir 44 in real life, I do not need any such clarification.

Because if the text of this card does not specify whether recovery in the oasis must be provided during the movement phase or the combat phase, it is necessarily because the active player chooses the phase that suits him.

Now, you have certainly noted that a unit present in the oasis cannot perform this special action if an enemy unit is in an adjacent hex.
If several units are ordered and can battle, and the situation is that of a unit located in the oasis, having not moved, adjacent to a single enemy unit, you must admit that this enemy unit could be eliminated in the combat phase without the intervention of the unit present in the oasis. In this case, the unit in the oasis could perform the recovery action, action which it could not do during the movement phase.

As a result, your choice to perform special action 10 only during the movement phase would prevent the BGA simulation from playing Memory 44 as in real life, referring to the situation I have just described.

The ideal would be to be able to carry out special action 10 either in the movement phase or in the combat phase on BGA, but if you want to impose a phase for technical reasons, I think that this must be the combat phase.
No point in giving argument, i will ask publisher directly to rule this one out if there are no official clarification already.
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jeroenh
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Re: Oasis Recover

Post by jeroenh »

Divadov wrote: 23 June 2022, 16:31 Recovery don't works, I have activated an armor in oasis, I don't have moved neither attack and nothing happened.

Table 276256157
Recover in oasis is for infantry only.
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diamant
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Re: Oasis Recover

Post by diamant »

jeroenh wrote: 25 June 2022, 14:12
Divadov wrote: 23 June 2022, 16:31 Recovery don't works, I have activated an armor in oasis, I don't have moved neither attack and nothing happened.

Table 276256157
Recover in oasis is for infantry only.
Normal rules can always be modified by the special rules of the scenarios.

BGA should not propose scenarios without implementing their special rules. Because Memoir '44 exists since 2004, the 60th anniversary of the landing in Normandy, the choice of quality scenarios is enormous, and most do not require specific developments.
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Tisaac
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Re: Oasis Recover

Post by Tisaac »

diamant wrote: 27 June 2022, 09:43 Because Memoir '44 exists since 2004, the 60th anniversary of the landing in Normandy, the choice of quality scenarios is enormous, and most do not require specific developments.
Lol, if only that was true, that would make our life much easier !

Publisher does not have any official ruling for the Oasis timing, he will ask game designer. Notice though that in the online implementation made by DoW before, the healing prompt was also during the move phase.
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tchobello
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Re: Oasis Recover

Post by tchobello »

Tisaac wrote: 27 June 2022, 09:49
Publisher does not have any official ruling for the Oasis timing, he will ask game designer. Notice though that in the online implementation made by DoW before, the healing prompt was also during the move phase.
As written in the rule, "The unit cannot move or battle this turn", it's more likely that it's done before any move at all.
More over, M44 rules are straight forward, easy to understand & I'd be surprised if Richard Borg allows players to recover whenever they want.

Forcing a unit to retreat and then allowing another one to recover on oasis is more a matter of luck than skill.
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diamant
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Re: Oasis Recover

Post by diamant »

Tisaac wrote: 27 June 2022, 09:49
diamant wrote: 27 June 2022, 09:43 Because Memoir '44 exists since 2004, the 60th anniversary of the landing in Normandy, the choice of quality scenarios is enormous, and most do not require specific developments.
Lol, if only that was true, that would make our life much easier !
You have done a lot of work on Memoir '44 by implementing many extensions in addition to the base game. For me, the implementation of an extension consists in integrating all the rules of the booklet, and as far as possible the additional rules of the scenarios, insofar as the corresponding scenarios can be chosen by the creator of the table or randomly.

What I call “specific developments” corresponds only to these additional rules, which are not described in the first part of the booklet. When I look at the texts associated with the Pacific Theatre extension, for example, I find these additional rules in the “Conditions of Victory” sections.

Among the official scenarios (not just the scenarios of the different rules), it seems to me that those with “additional rules” are only a minority.
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