People using AI?

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Daggerheart
Posts: 54
Joined: 14 January 2017, 01:18

People using AI?

Postby Daggerheart » 27 February 2018, 12:12

I guess Quarto is the "perfect" game for making an AI to win...

Of course with the level of programming AIs for games these days... Quarto would be like a "walk in the park".

I stuided the only(!) match between two of the highest ranked players here, watched the replay, and guess what happend. They played the advanced mode and both did a perfect match. The match was decided by the last piece left. Totally flawless play.
I stuided another match, basic rules this time, between high ranked players, and the match was also flawless, last piece left decided result.

Please note: I don't claim anybody cheats! But of course my findings makes me wonder... are some guys just using this game and this site to test if their AI is perfect... well I am very suspicious now... only me?

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_Kex_
Posts: 15
Joined: 17 October 2017, 11:48

Re: People using AI?

Postby _Kex_ » 27 February 2018, 16:11

between high ranked players


I see your concern and I agree that it's a possibility
but isn't it kinda expected that matches between the highest ranked players, who we assume are the best of the best, end on the very last move or even in a draw and are played flawlessly until the very end?

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Daggerheart
Posts: 54
Joined: 14 January 2017, 01:18

Re: People using AI?

Postby Daggerheart » 27 February 2018, 22:44

Well if the level of the best players here are "no mistakes" in Quarto... then the result is decided by who starts. To play a totally "solved" game must be fun? Of course that there is only ONE match between the top players, and this is a perfect match... it's something not "healthy" about this.... sorry but I feel that way... I believe one or both use AI....

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Jest Phulin
Posts: 618
Joined: 08 July 2013, 21:50

Re: People using AI?

Postby Jest Phulin » 28 February 2018, 01:01

Daggerheart wrote:Well if the level of the best players here are "no mistakes" in Quarto... then the result is decided by who starts. To play a totally "solved" game must be fun?

So, I guess nobody has played chess since Deep Blue defeated Kasparov in 1997, as it isn't fun anymore? ;)
Also, I am wondering about your definition of a "perfect" match. Is the match perfect because it went to the last play, or is it perfect because the plays were what an AI would do in that situation?

I've got to agree with Kex on this one: while it is a possibility that AI is involved in any "perfect" game (and that goes for every game that has no randomness and no hidden information involved), it is irresponsible to state that there must be AI involved. Except for AlphaGo, I know of no AI that wasn't modeled after good player's behavior (and AlphaGo was modeled after the big human behavior of "I win when I make this move in this situation.")

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Daggerheart
Posts: 54
Joined: 14 January 2017, 01:18

Re: People using AI?

Postby Daggerheart » 28 February 2018, 12:05

Well after what I have "discovered". I don't know how hard it is to play a "perfect" game of Quarto on advanced settings.

So my current "questions" are these:
How hard is it to play a perfect match in Quarto on advanced settings? and the "best" plays perfect each time?
How many of the players here at BGA are capable of playing "every" match perfect (that is, the result is decided by the last remaining piece)?
Why are the top 3 players not playing vs each other? Is it due to they know it will be decided by who starts? And if the answer to this last question is yes.... it's not good for a game to be "solved" like that... = the complexity of the game is not high enough.

Let's face it, the chance of one or more of the top 3 are using AI is over 50%.... Sorry, but for me the "proof" is that they don't play vs each other, they are not "active" seeking to "test their skills" vs the other best players... and the answer to why this... is not pleasant.


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