Why ELO doesn't suit to BGA

[latexrhombus]

all you players are trying different methiods which is good for some but not others.its impossible for ELO TO WORK MAKE ALL HAPPY.wHY OVER/OVER I SAY make simple win/losses with the Percentage.Then it is what it is.Thks again for listening .P.S SURE make lots of less work for BGA.

I agree that not everyone will be totally happy, but this is NOT about making everyone happy. It is about making the website better. I actually think the ELO system is an attraction point to BGA so I think getting rid of it would be totally wrong and ultimately be bad for the site (even though not everyone likes it). The beauty of it is those who do not like it do not need to worry about it and can even play with ELO off if it upsets them that much.

I do like some of the ideas on here about separating prestige and ELO though. I think the tournament discussion has evolved really well and those ideas seem solid, but getting rid of ELO altogether would almost definitely upset a large number of people for no reason since those who do not like it do not gain from it being removed.

[intrepid]

hey enjoy the conve4rsation ,I just don't believe ELO REPRESENTS IF YOUR A GOOD PLAYER OR NOT.a percentage point is a percentage pont it would hurt me but it is what it is .I realize I play a lot.So if it ruffles there feathers with better percentage so be it .yES I HAVE MORE GAMES THAN MOST BIG DEAL.ITS ALL ABOUT THE WINS AND FUN OF WINNING.

[Unabstainer]

Hi all... seems to me, a strange idea to change this thing, current ELO ranking....

Sorry for bad english and too free thoughts but...
Сouple of words about BGA ambitious players... (you may read - 'us')

1. Free thoughts....

Ambitious players don't want to be 'the best player of 'September 1999'.... they want to be best player EVER.
That's why they are playing for global ELO which becoming their property for LONG period.
Be sure, I'm ready to confirm my trophies MORE OFTEN than once in 2 months, really AGREE and really CAN.
These trophies is a great reason for me to visit site and to play regular.
I like players who play 'for fun only' but do it myself rarely.... I prefer hard fighting for a Crown! (Let us be ourselves).

From life.... 4 years ago I said to my friend 'I'm top Haggis player of the world'. It sounded great and I felt great!
And two weeks ago he asked me again - 'are you still...' - and I said 'Yes of course'.... i carried it through the YEARS.
I can say more, this my friend decided to register on BGA EXACTLY after that ("to fresh his brain")
RESET for ambitious people is like blasphemy in religion, like a knife from a friend... really...

2. Suggestion:

So ANYWAY (even if the world collapse) we must have a trophey that indicates player's achievement in his WHOLE LIFE on BGA....
For example if I made top-1 in three seasons I must be more respected than player who won just two seasons and so on....
Global trophies are the only food for ambitious players.

P.S.

Players like fish, some are guppies, and some are piranhas...
Don't kill all piranhas to make boardgame world more bright and peaceful. Let some vultures leave...
Don't make king size smaller and seasonal....

[Willie333b]

But it is actually suit.

[KaosBombix]

Hmm... each season, BGA want to decrease the elo of players with good elo? Seriously? Why? because this player got this elo by cheating? no.. he got this by playing with another player, and by winning against them. That is not something normal !
And your idea will increase the multi account because players with less than 1890 for example will create a multi account to get more than 1900. And after... when everyone will have 1900, they will cheat to become 1st

WTF... this idea is just... so bad ! Sorry to say that !

[demiurgsage]

Hi all... seems to me, a strange idea to change this thing, current ELO ranking....
Ambitious players don't want to be 'the best player of 'September 1999'.... they want to be best player EVER.
That's why they are playing for global ELO which becoming their property for LONG period.
Be sure, I'm ready to confirm my trophies MORE OFTEN than once in 2 months, really AGREE and really CAN.
These trophies is a great reason for me to visit site and to play regular.
I like players who play 'for fun only' but do it myself rarely.... I prefer hard fighting for a Crown! (Let us be ourselves).

ELO has some issues, most of them are described in 1st post of this theme.
You have top1 in two games - Quarto and Haggis. Both of these games you play 2p, so multiplayer ELO issues didn't affect you. Both of these games are not too popular. So if someone start cheating or manipulating ELO it quickly becomes obvious. Quarto is a game without luck. ELO is quite good for skill-based 2p games.
My 1st and main suggestion was to improve rating to fix some of its issues. Players who won their trophies honestly only win if rating system becomes more fair and more difficult to manipulate and cheating.

[Lennon]

What we have in mind at now has slightly evolved compared this this "Seasons point" system, but our objectives remains the same :

• We want to introduce regular "Seasons", to give you permanent achievements when you reach the top, in replacement of the current "volatile" trophy that you lose as soon as you lose your ranking.
• We want to give "Seasons trophies" to players who really deserve it, which means you won't be able to win a trophy just by beating a beginner every month.
• We want a system than is less discouraging for weak players. At now they starts at 1500, and then decrease to 1200-1300 after few games which is quite discouraging.

What we have in mind at now :

• Keep the ELO for ranking.
• At the beginning of each Seasons, decrease the ELOs of everyone to a starting point (ex : to 1900 for those above 1900, to 1700 for those between 1700 and 1900, ...).
• From that point, this would be the start of the "ELO race" for this new Season.
• At the same time, there would be a minimum for ELO (beginner level) to make sure no player could not get a lesser rank than a beginner.

The "ELO reset" seems quite rude, but each time we are launching a new game on BGA everyone is starting at 1500 and the first month there is a really good competitive atmosphere to "take the first trophies" for this game. Our idea is to re-create this dynamic each Season for each game to avoid a "static" competition like it is right now.

... and of course current ELO leaders would automatically received the "first" Seasons trophies to materialize their achievements with the previous system.

hello all,i'd like to write my opinion.

I think, to change the present ELO system is bad on the basis of proposal of sourisdudesert.
Because, for example, when the Elites is decided, the "11th player" isn't Elite? I think it isn't.
In my thinking, the ELO points shows his/her ability in each games, and the points becomes an index.
For example, the beginner looking for the table which he/she has never play, he/she wanna play with expert or master? If the beginner is me, I don't think so. I wanna play with beginner, usual player, and so on.
In addition, resetting ELO put us off motivation to play. It equal to be deny all efforts till now.

By the way, I know BGA has some problems of ELO. Raise one's ratio with another account, don't play game to be afraid of losing ratio, etc etc....
I understand that Admins wanna solve this problems, and they suggested to another system of ELO.
But, this system isn't a fundamental solution, and it only make another problems.
Improvement of BGA environment is great for all of player. But in sometimes, there're some deterioration of system.
I think " "Season point" system" is deterioration.
I hope another solution.

Thx for the seeing, and I'm sry for writing childish sentence

[glitter and doom]

In addition, resetting ELO put us off motivation to play. It equal to be deny all efforts till now.

Exactly. The funny thing is they're doing it because they want people to play more. They don't realise that Elo decrease is a huge motivation killer.

[cosmosis]

It does worry me that resetting ELO means you don't have any indicator anymore of how good a person really is. (I guess the only indicator would be trophies, which distinguish the very top players).

And yeah, ELO resets would be a motivation killer for me, and probably many of the top players. I guess the argument here is that it might make people who aren't the top players play more?

I'm hoping one of the BGA staff will comment again soon on this topic.

[sourisdudesert]

Well, as I said, we will do a test, and if it does not solve issues we're not going to continue it. Ranking is a very complicated thing and we cannot determine a good solution only by arguing.

For ex (extreme example) : Heartstone is doing a reset of all rankings every month. And no one can pretend that it breaks players motivation, isn't it ?