Back-Button for Tzol'kin

[Quax]

Would be great if the game would get a back-button. It just again happended, startet in a turnbased play a new round, forget to check if I have to feed my people, put in a new one, see then that I would have to retur one for food... but too late. This very angry. Also misclicking is fatal without a turn-back-button

[Lady Delirium]

I would like a cancel button for all games, but especially Tzolk'in because I play it the most. I made a bad mistake in Terra Mystica last night, too. Being able to double-check and then accept would be great.

[veme]

+1 and...

https://en.boardgamearena.com/#!forum/v ... =3&t=10143
https://en.boardgamearena.com/#!forum/v ... =9&t=12172

Good luck!

[Quax]

Indeed there a pros and cons on having it, and probably they all are written somewhere.

But however, from my point of view not having a back-button resp. a confirm-turn-button means:

- I have to double check all my moves to avoid mistakes and especially that kind of "oh, now where I've done this move I see that it's crap". Double checking is equivalent to spend more time.
- I'm playing for fun. Winning is nice, but good game is much more important for me. Not having some confirmation-things is equivalent to "touching is binding" rules and the like, and this come from seriously tournament player where are punished if you are not concentrate. From a fun view this are nonsense-rules.
- If you just misclick it's absolutely fun-destroying, especially as some mobiles and so on are hard to use exactly.

whar are the benefits of having no confirmation-button?

- You have to click a little less.
- the developer has to programm less.
- ehm....

to counter the "advantages":
- As always options are the best. If you think confirmation buttons are wasting time you could have a general setting that automatically confirms your moves (of course, more developement time and more need to standardize programms).
- it would also save development time if we have minimized graphics, no comfortable interface and so on. But we have it, because it make the game better. As well as a confirmation button.

Okay, we all know arguments for and againgst a confirmation thing, why I again write here? To show there is demand for. If this topic raises again and again and again we may have real strong demand on it, of it raises just every few months, than the demand is probably not so high.

Have fun!

[Liallan]

Okay, we all know arguments for and againgst a confirmation thing, why I again write here? To show there is demand for. If this topic raises again and again and again we may have real strong demand on it, of it raises just every few months, than the demand is probably not so high.

Yes, we all do know the arguments for and against. Well, there are some people who I think don't really get it, but the point is it's been written about over and over. And we know there's demand for it. Being raised "every few months" is a pretty high demand. I don't think I could tolerate having it brought up more often. Trust me, they already know the demand is there. (If you had read just the first of the linked threads, you would know this too.)

There are also people who don't want this. And there's still yet an argument between Undo vs Confirm Move, vs people who don't really want it at all. So while demand is high, there's always somebody who posts who doesn't want it.

[veme]

There are also people who don't want this.

Not having it should be the default option, with a user preference to turn it on.

Many pretty common medical conditions result in unsteady hands, so this comes down to an accessibility issue for me. Not having a useful feature, while also basically putting people with neurological or muscular disorders, substance abuse issues, etc. at a systematic disadvantage seems rude to me. I mean, there are some people that don't want disabled parking spaces too, and while I can understand their argument philosophically, I guess... really? And this change doesn't even make anyone walk farther.

It especially rankles because I feel like no one can articulate the opposing side of this argument in a way that can't be taken apart in a paragraph with a very simple fix or explanation, and because it is requested on the forums more often than probably any other feature.

And there's still yet an argument between Undo vs Confirm Move

What is the difference between these two things? I see this distinction made and I sincerely still have no idea what the heck people are talking about and would love it explained to me. Isn't 'undo' just the thing you can do until you 'confirm'? This is how I understand the situation:

Functionality should be added to all games which will confirm or undo the previous actions on the active player's turn that did not reveal hidden information (either one action at a time, or all at once, depending on the complexity of a turn in the particular game). It should remain the active player's turn until they confirm that they are done, and all opponents should be able to see any changes to the gamestate that the active player makes during this time. The confirm button should not overlap spatially with any part of the interface the player may have clicked on to end their move, nor should it be very close to the undo button.

See Tash-Kalar (which specifically states in the rules that this is allowed even in the tabletop version), although most games would probably be better off with an accept/reset choice for the whole turn, instead of move by move. I don't care what name we use, just put it in all the games, please.

[Liallan]

There are also people who don't want this.

Not having it should be the default option, with a user preference to turn it on.

Many pretty common medical conditions result in unsteady hands, so this comes down to an accessibility issue for me. Not having a useful feature, while also basically putting people with neurological or muscular disorders, substance abuse issues, etc. at a systematic disadvantage seems rude to me.

You already know that "they" know this is a popular topic and something that is wanted, and you are also aware of what their answer is. (Whether you like their answer or not is a different matter. I'm just saying you know what it is, just as I know what it is.)

But... including substance abuse issues in with honest physical disorders that someone cannot help? Really? If I had some physical handicap through no fault of my own, I'd find that pretty insulting.

And there's still yet an argument between Undo vs Confirm Move

What is the difference between these two things? I see this distinction made and I sincerely still have no idea what the heck people are talking about and would love it explained to me. Isn't 'undo' just the thing you can do until you 'confirm'?

It's a fair question and not one I've seen asked before, to my recollection. (i.e. I didn't feel like getting into this with Quax who had to go and drag it up again, and likewise I don't feel like getting into it with you again. But this is a new question I haven't seen asked.) Regardless what you call it, there are people who said they would find it annoying to watch movements made, just to have them un-done, and not even know when the person was done with their turn.

As it is now, with most games, I click on a card I want to play and the game carries out this move and does with the card whatever cards do in that game, visual movements, and results of the move. But that's not what I meant to do, so I have to tell it, un-do this last move, followed by the game having to back out the whole thing, visual-wise and all the stuff it caused to happen. OR, I click on the card I want to play, it highlights, nothing happens, and then I have to click on a Confirm button before it carries anything out. Even if the other players see what got highlighted, they are not seeing any other visual movements, and the game doesn't have to "un-do" the new game state, because the move doesn't happen until I confirm it. This is my understanding of the difference. (If that doesn't make sense, I'll have to find a game we both know.)

In the un-do scenario, you don't have to do anything if you're fine with the move. You don't touch anything and the move stays. (But you would still have to confirm when you've finished your turn so it knows you don't want to un-do anything.) With the confirm, you would have to do this on every move you make through your turn so the game knows it's the correct thing before carrying out the move. Which would get extremely annoying if there were more than one or two things you could do on your turn.

(As a side note, keep in mind Yucata that you were speaking of [in a thread I don't want to go find], is turn-based, so these issues of people having to watch everything get undone or not knowing when someone is finished just don't exist. In fact, there aren't any visuals to watch for the most part. So when something is un-done, it just reverts back in one big "jerk" and just doesn't exist anymore. Older games have no un-do, which isn't going to change there anymore than it's going to change here. [And in some ways is worse there cause we have to know which games these are.] Some can only un-do your entire turn, even if you only want to un-do your last move. That also isn't going to change. Those are already programmed that way. They have a new framework, which can un-do anything one step at a time, and kind of leaves it up to the developer how they want to handle things, and handles the whole server/client in a different way. But it took them a LONG TIME to develop that new framework. They didn't snap their fingers and do it overnight, and I'm sure a lot of discussion and ponderings went into whether they'd even develop a new one, let alone what they would choose to do with it. So if they ever do something like that here, it's not going to happen overnight either. And so far, one, maybe two, older games there have been recoded into the new framework, which took time. Someone is now recoding another older game. The developers have to decide whether it's worth the work. All new games are done in the new framework. So next time you try to compare with Yucata, you might keep some of this in mind.)