Graduated results in case of abandonment

Suggestions & ideas / Suggestions & idées
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souly4
Posts: 95
Joined: 06 January 2018, 06:02

Re: Graduated results in case of abandonment

Post by souly4 »

Silene wrote: 05 August 2019, 10:57Also you jump to conclusion very quickly regarding what's admin's concern... Not very kind imo.
Possibly, but it was written in the aftermath of said game, which was all the less 'kind' from the quitter (it was pretty obvious to everyone the reason was he took some points in quick succession).

Apparently it serves a role when a rule is perceived as unfair and even more so if it a weird series like mine occurs. I would be expected to win maybe 3 of these 7 games, but with being first in 6, my chances were good the number would be a lot higher. Similar to the thread about winning margins, while I accept there people seem not to conform to it: Imagine someone suffers from an illness that's mainly caused by his own harmful behaviour like alcohol or smoking. For many people to give up the addiction, the pressure/suffering must exceed a critical value so that the willingness to finally change the lifestyle is sufficiently high. In our case, it seems I have to endure a few unsatisfying abandons in order to be encouraged to request it here in the forums. But if my act as kind of guinea pig would lead to higher fairness in the end (adapted rule), at least that would have some purpose that I happily accept.

About the adequacy of the application of the rule in some games, I think that has been mentioned in a previous post. It shouldn't be too difficult to identify those games, and above all we would only look at games that are usually conducted as multiplayer. Stone Age wouldn't come to mind first with that in mind.
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6element
Posts: 146
Joined: 26 July 2018, 10:15

Re: Graduated results in case of abandonment

Post by 6element »

I don't see the suggestion producing desired results for 7 Wonders, Race for the Galaxy, Stone Age, Carcasson or Libertalia. From the games not on BGA, unlikely it'll work for Splendor, Lords of Waterdeep, Dominion, King of Tokyo, or Ticket to Ride. Too many games have complex enough scoring and strategy, that counting "current" score doesn't make much sense, you have to play till the end.

I understand your frustration, but the proposed change would create even greater frustration, with many folks complaining "sure I was second (third) when player X quit, but I'm 100% I would've won".
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sprockitz
Posts: 666
Joined: 23 October 2014, 02:22

Re: Graduated results in case of abandonment

Post by sprockitz »

To me at the very least they shouldn't be computing Elo as if you've tied with all the other players besides the quitter. Ignore the ties and only distribute points gained against the loser. This would give everyone a little something, instead of those with higher Elo netting 0 and those with low Elo getting a huge boost. Likewise for team games they shouldn't say you tied with your teammate (Belote for example).

In terms of calling wins or losses by in progress scores...sure a few games like hearts and 6nimmt it might be good...but for most of the games on here the in progress score has minimal to no positive correlation with the final score.
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eoc
Posts: 105
Joined: 11 January 2017, 20:10

Re: Graduated results in case of abandonment

Post by eoc »

sprockitz wrote: 06 August 2019, 03:08 To me at the very least they shouldn't be computing Elo as if you've tied with all the other players besides the quitter. Ignore the ties and only distribute points gained against the loser.
While I agree with your reply in general, one should consider the "gaming ELO" folks before implementing such a mechanic. Suddenly, for -every- player on the table, such a reward system would encourage kicking good players as fast as possible once they time out. I cannot imagine that will lead to a more pleasant experience overall. Much like in real life, you'd rather try to avoid someone standing up from the table and leaving the others hanging, so you try to find ways to ensure everyone is sufficiently okay with whatever you choose to do about some changed circumstances.

So instead of curing symptoms of the underlying issue (something undesirable happens when a player rage-quits a table), I'd be in favor of trying to approach the issue itself: quitting is too easy, particulary out of frustration for the game(s) prompting this kind of thread from time to time. So perhaps introduce harsher penalties that don't just affect your reputation and generally steer players towards finishing games properly – here's a few ideas off the top of my head, not having put much deliberation into any of them:
  • Block people from opening or joining a table of this particular game for a period of time
  • Hold a vote on the abandoned table whether the remaining players feel like the quitting was accidental or on purpose and punish deliberate quitting differently from the timeouts that inevitably will happen from time to time with online play
  • Introduce a period of time during which, if player B expelled player A for time reasons, the other players can instead choose to extend the clock of player A after a voting (this mostly matters for turn-based)
  • Invent a new trophy for a streak of X games without exceeding the time limit that you lose once you quit (any table, not just the trophy for that one game) to help players with matchmaking who are looking for well-behaved players
  • Only grant players a limited amount of expel actions per week / month / playing activity, so that you must invest a resource of your own to prematurely end games. Alternatively, have expelling players slightly over time come with a karma hit on its own. This is mostly to avoid team-game quitting where everyone might still be playing, but one side feels like they're losing and is looking for an easy way out. Once it's clear the inactive player won't return (e.g. max. thinking time has gone by twice) the expelling should become free.
For the admittedly few games where the intermediate scores can indicate possible final placement: maybe allow throwing non-2p-games in the same way you can concede 2p games after 50% progression, which would hopefully at least be better than quitting the entire table. The conceding player would always come in last no matter their current score, so that also has potential to be gamed, but if the table has to vote between "abandon game and get -some- realistic result" and "results neutralized, have an empty win", some like the thread opener might try to convince the rest that the game was meaningful and the current scores reflect a likely outcome to some degree.
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