Suggestion : Allow option to complete a carriage at the end of the game that has 3+ stops

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dannyant
Posts: 6
Joined: 16 July 2021, 17:29

Suggestion : Allow option to complete a carriage at the end of the game that has 3+ stops

Post by dannyant »

I would be interested in seeing statistics on how often the last player vs first player wins a game. Especially at high level play.

Suppose
1) player 1 has a 3 stop route in play, and player 2 has a 4 stop route.
2) Both have a 6 carriage.

Then player 1 has to play as if player 2 will end the game, with the cartwright.
So player 1 completes his route, with at most a 5 carriage.
Then player 2 can wait a turn to complete the 7 carriage.
Player 1 wastes a turn, because he can not do anything with 1 turn.

Tell me if my example is clear, I can explain it in more detail, or find an example where this situation comes up.

I think that this issue would be resolved by allowing any player to complete and turn in a route (without the cartwright) that is already down and +3 stops.
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BenInJapan
Posts: 33
Joined: 13 April 2020, 05:30

Re: Suggestion : Allow option to complete a carriage at the end of the game that has 3+ stops

Post by BenInJapan »

Yes, that's basically the advantage of going last in this game, which is on the other hand contradicted of the option of the first player to at the pace.

When I play, I usually do not come into this situation as first player, because as I see the game as the first player you must make sure to always be the one setting the pace, that way you also can try to gain the higher bonus tiles, and you're basically starting the game with +1 point.

If another player manages to get ahead of the pace of the first player, he usually has to give up something else (i.e. a longer route) to reach this point, and I think it would be unfair to punish him for that.

However, I'm only somewhere around 200 ELO, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
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Silene
Posts: 784
Joined: 23 October 2013, 17:50

Re: Suggestion : Allow option to complete a carriage at the end of the game that has 3+ stops

Post by Silene »

dannyant wrote: 19 December 2021, 11:07 Tell me if my example is clear, I can explain it in more detail, or find an example where this situation comes up.

I think that this issue would be resolved by allowing any player to complete and turn in a route (without the cartwright) that is already down and +3 stops.
It's perfectly explained what you mean, but there are also advantages in going first like:
- first pick on the starting cards
- being a bit faster on everything so better chances to get the bonus tiles for colored-regions and the higher-level route-length-bonus-tiles.

2nd player needs an advantage too and that is the possibility of the situation you explained. I think it's fair.

Your suggestion gives half a turn for free to the player who was slower during the game (and when that's the first player, that is on them). That doesn't feel right. Partly because rushing quickly is and should be a good strategy imo.

... oh someone was quicker - yeah, basically the same what person before me said.
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dannyant
Posts: 6
Joined: 16 July 2021, 17:29

Re: Suggestion : Allow option to complete a carriage at the end of the game that has 3+ stops

Post by dannyant »

I understand that, which is why I said I would be interested in seeing statistics by who was first / last place.
I was not sure if the last player advantage is canceled out by the first player advantage.

Maybe Statistics for all players and statistics for players with ELO 300+ or something. I am not sure if that is possible to get though.
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Vandaley
Posts: 111
Joined: 23 November 2020, 02:22

Re: Suggestion : Allow option to complete a carriage at the end of the game that has 3+ stops

Post by Vandaley »

I am one of the highest rated players and I play a lot. For the games I play against other very strongly rated players, this does not come into play as we each know what is required to win when going first or last (or in the middle for 3 and 4 player).

In 2 player, I play completely different styles determined on the opening lay of the cards and my position in turn. If I am going first, I play the game as a race and it is my goal to finish the carriages *before* the other player reaches carriage 6. So I aim to win the game with 15-20 points. If I have the hammer, then it is my goal to rack up as many points as possible while keeping pace with the first player, that way I can get to the end of the game and be able to play in any way that I want.


In 3-player, it is basically the same, but if I am going 2nd I pay attention to player 1. If I can jump ahead of them, I will, then I have the hammer on them and am ahead of everyone. This is a very powerful place to be.

In 4-player, things are much more random, so I do not think this comes into play as much.

As Ben said, there is also a HUGE advantage to going first, part of it you might not realize (this is especially true in 2 player) as it is a rule that if you have zero cards in your hand at the start of a turn (which is true for everyone on their opening move) you MUST draw 2 cards and cannot use the administrator. So, for the first player, they know that their opponent cannot wipe the board on them, so it makes the opening choice VERY powerful, especially if their are valuable cards out.
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