RIP, Hardback arena mode and rankings

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ufm
Posts: 1346
Joined: 06 January 2017, 08:38

Re: RIP, Hardback arena mode and rankings

Post by ufm »

Octothorpe wrote: 25 September 2021, 03:18 We need to have a true "Champion of All Games" arena where you just queue for all the possible game configurations or something. :D
The whole option locks and seasonal resets are set to prevent THAT thing. ELO serves your purpose already.
The game play may vary drastically even from a single adjustment. Player number, expansion, additional rule, etc.
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Mr_Magic
Posts: 149
Joined: 08 March 2018, 15:59

Re: RIP, Hardback arena mode and rankings

Post by Mr_Magic »

ufm wrote: 16 September 2021, 10:26 Tournaments are also gone. Guess they have to be manually organized from now on.
What is the best place to find manual tournaments for this game? Is there a group I should join to find them?
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karlavaegen
Posts: 2
Joined: 12 December 2020, 03:39

Re: RIP, Hardback arena mode and rankings

Post by karlavaegen »

Of possible interest on this (no longer live, really) topic thread:

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2021 ... d-to-cheat
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gordoz
Posts: 56
Joined: 17 December 2020, 07:05

Re: RIP, Hardback arena mode and rankings

Post by gordoz »

That article misunderstands cheating. In the example given, grifting players in the clam market is in no way cheating. It is playing the game well. Does the author also think bluffing is illegal in poker? Goodness.

On the other hand, probably there is some clause on BGA that says that looking up words on Google is against the rules so its quite obviously cheating.

Incidentally, there are ways to cheat in many games on BGA. For example:

-In Carcassonne, there is a tile counter website you can use to card count, so you don't have to do it with your brain.
-In Fluxx, you can pretend its your birthday when it's not, and then you get extra cards.
-In any game with more than two players, you can collude with others.

Unfortunately, banning achievements/arena in Hardback doesn't follow suit with BGA's overarching stance on cheating. For example, arena mode is disabled in Chess, which makes sense, because a Chess engine will play the whole game for you. Its not disabled in Carcassonne, because even if you are using the tile counter, you still have to make decisions on how to play yourself. Hardback is the same way. Even if someone is cheating to look up words, they have to decide which pieces to purchase and how much ink to use, and so forth. You can't play the whole game via an engine.

TLDR: Turn achievements and arena back on for Hardback. Doesn't make any sense disabling it. Some will cheat and some won't, who gives a shit?
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ufm
Posts: 1346
Joined: 06 January 2017, 08:38

Re: RIP, Hardback arena mode and rankings

Post by ufm »

Thread necro of a cheater? Say it to the face of pro Scrabble players.
Solvers provide massive advantages over card selections and word plays. Just stop cherry picking.
FYI, all competitive features of all solvable word games are gone forever and will be removed preemptively for upcoming games, thanks to you.
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JackHH
Posts: 40
Joined: 28 November 2020, 10:25

Re: RIP, Hardback arena mode and rankings

Post by JackHH »

gordoz wrote: 23 January 2022, 02:17 TLDR: Turn achievements and arena back on for Hardback. Doesn't make any sense disabling it. Some will cheat and some won't, who gives a shit?
I respectfully disagree. The move to turn arena and rankings off for Hardback has greatly improved the game.

I'll let other users reading this post make their own mind up on the matter, but back when arena was active, Gordoz was one of the top players, yet had a reputation score of 40% (the lowest I have ever seen on BGA). Since arena went away, Gordoz stopped playing, and the reputation score has gone back up to 100.
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Mark Ellis
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Joined: 10 April 2020, 07:27

Re: RIP, Hardback arena mode and rankings

Post by Mark Ellis »

Interesting to read this thread. I came here because I'm getting back into Hardback after a while away from BGA. I was thinking wouldn't it be nice to have some Arena games for Hardback, but suspected I knew why this wasn't happening and sad to have the answer confirmed.

I had a suspected case of cheating against me even in a simple game some time ago, presumably for the ELO/thrill of the win etc. Can't prove it, just based on some pretty obscure words to force difficult letters to comply. Words with unusual structures that are hard to 'see' from my experience with word games. Certainly less compelling evidence than Jack's example, even prior to their opponent's confession, but I am a fair old word geek (write for a living, English Lit degree, created some word-building prototypes) so it is rare to find my vocabulary eclipsed. Although unproven, it left a sour taste.

In simple games, I believe giving a personal red thumb is enough to avoid that player in future, so this is really helpful, but I'm guessing this has no effect on the pairing system in Arena? Not that it would offer a complete solution anyway, because people could still cheat the ranking system against others. So, no solutions will be forthcoming for Arena I suppose. I'm curious though whether anyone tried the creating tournaments idea and how that went? It seems a promising idea if you can exclude suspected cheats. But may be hard to know for sure in some cases.

As an aside, with online games, I sometimes see a word then continue looking for more common words, to help 'show' that I'm not using a word finder. Since cheating happens, I wouldn't blame anyone for suspecting me if I put down words like crepuscular or irrefrangible, because it's hard for them to know that I see them without help, particularly as I only play turn-based games. Maybe I need to up my speed skills and go real time instead of worrying, as it sounds like a favoured solution in some quarters!
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