Current ELO system ruins the game. Only 1st should gain, all others lose equally.

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Romain672
Posts: 591
Joined: 05 April 2016, 13:53

Re: Current ELO system ruins the game. Only 1st should gain, all others lose equally.

Post by Romain672 »

You don't 'lose' it, but you became unranked until you play again.
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Beorn
Posts: 5
Joined: 25 May 2014, 14:11

Re: Current ELO system ruins the game. Only 1st should gain, all others lose equally.

Post by Beorn »

Totally agree. Just played a game where a guy mooned for third place. When asked, "Moon for third?" Person responded, "Why not? I lost no points."
TarkinsRevenge
Posts: 3
Joined: 28 March 2020, 17:28

Re: Current ELO system ruins the game. Only 1st should gain, all others lose equally.

Post by TarkinsRevenge »

I would love to see this ELO system implemented for this game.
This game has the most frustrating ELO system for me on BGA. Because of this, players are encouraged to play for second or third place to protect their ELO, which changes the entire balance of the game. This system does NOT encourage you to play for the win, since being second place (first loser) often results in positive ELO and third place results in minor ELO loss.

PROPOSAL:
ELO for the win
Equal ELO loss for2-4
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Drizlin
Posts: 4
Joined: 28 February 2018, 21:09

Re: Current ELO system ruins the game. Only 1st should gain, all others lose equally.

Post by Drizlin »

Hearts has been around for hundreds of years. Traditionally it had 1 winner and 3 losers (or a 3 way tie for 2nd if you prefer). That 'prize' structure encourages a 3v1 against the point leader, making the game a bit of a team game. With ELO being awarded differently for 1st, 2nd, 3rd & 4th the incentive is different. The result is that if you have learned traditional play strategy, you will be very upset playing Hearts on BGA!

I would very much support the idea of changing the ELO awarded to 1 winner and 3 equal non winners

OR change the name of the game to "Hearts, cut throat edition!"
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aesche
Posts: 379
Joined: 06 April 2020, 02:31

Re: Current ELO system ruins the game. Only 1st should gain, all others lose equally.

Post by aesche »

I repeatedly wonder how all you guys play multiplayer games in real life. Be it hearts or wizard or any other game with trackable score, if 3rd can‘t make 1st anymore, he obviously targets 2nd. Noone crying around about it there, not sure why it should be different here.
TarkinsRevenge
Posts: 3
Joined: 28 March 2020, 17:28

Re: Current ELO system ruins the game. Only 1st should gain, all others lose equally.

Post by TarkinsRevenge »

aesche wrote: 17 June 2022, 17:39 I repeatedly wonder how all you guys play multiplayer games in real life. Be it hearts or wizard or any other game with trackable score, if 3rd can‘t make 1st anymore, he obviously targets 2nd. Noone crying around about it there, not sure why it should be different here.
A) Not "crying" about it, we are suggesting a change.
B) 3rd can ALWAYS make first. Hearts does not end until the last point is lost. Although the odds of victory decrease the closer to zero you get, the odds are never zero.

The issue is that the way ELO is rewarded in this game (something that does not happen IRL), causes strategies to be based around ELO and not around the game itself.
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RicardoRix
Posts: 1658
Joined: 29 April 2012, 23:43

Re: Current ELO system ruins the game. Only 1st should gain, all others lose equally.

Post by RicardoRix »

So you'd be more happy, if everyone gunned for the 1st player, and in the end the 4th place positional player sneaks the win and gets all the points.
Is that more fair?

Or did the original guy in 1st place deserve their lead when everyone was playing against everyone else? Another rhetorical question. Yes, they did.

If you change 2-4 as equal placement, then you still run into the BGA ELO shared placement bug that has been around forever. Out of the frying pan...

If you like, then you can play without ELO in training mode.
danno19
Posts: 2
Joined: 30 August 2021, 21:00

Re: Current ELO system ruins the game. Only 1st should gain, all others lose equally.

Post by danno19 »

Scusate è la prima volta che scrivo e approfitto di questo post perché trovo assurdo il modo in cui in questo gioco (Hearts) vengano assegnati/tolti gli scudi Elo per salire di livello nella versione arena
Vinco una partita e il gioco mi assegna due scudi, se non uno. Perdo una partita e mi toglie due tre a volte è capitato anche 4 scudi.
Tra l'altro non è un discorso di "forza dell'avversario" perché vinco con gente molto più forte di me e mi assegna +2 perdo con le stesse "forza valore" e mi dà un -3.
Mi pare davvero ridicolo. Così non arriverò mai a livello Elite.
Tra l'altro io ho un livello di 136 (molto basso).
Questa cosa però mi capita nelle ultime due settimane, perché non ricordo importanti disparità per assegnare/togliere scudi in questo gioco.
Assurdo.
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