The Word Library and Its Synonym

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otiluke711
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Joined: 10 June 2021, 04:13

The Word Library and Its Synonym

Post by otiluke711 »

Hey everyone,

From my own research…I’d say

Biblioteca is the Spanish word for library.

Bibliotheca, however, (to my understanding) is one possible English synonym for library.

I’ve even googled “is bibliotheca English” to try to settle things and found this link as part of my research: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bibliotheca#English

I wrote the second word (bibliotheca) down as a clue and got disagreement. They basically said it is Spanish when I told them it is Biblioteca that is Spanish….not Bibliotheca…

If someone can settle this through friendly discussion, it would be much appreciated.

The issue is there are also many English words and Spanish words which are exact duplicates of each other (https://spanish.yabla.com/lesson-100-Wo ... glish-1229)

Happy Gaming to all! :-)
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aghagh
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Re: The Word Library and Its Synonym

Post by aghagh »

The bottom line issue is that Just One rules are not clear / thorough enough, perhaps on purpose because it's just a party game to have fun, not a big brainer. If we go to the forum section in the BGG page for the game, we can see several discussions of what would be and what would not be a valid clue. After many playes, I've encountered more strict players (like myself) and more relaxed players. The problem is when there is a mix of these two types of players in a table because it can generate discussions or a feeling of cheating. What many players do is just leave it up to the judge each turn, whatever the consequences (which means clues get wrongly validated or invalidated because lack of discussion).

What the rules say for invalid clues:
- The mystery word written differently
- The mystery word in a foreign language
- A word from the same family as the mystery word
- An invented word
- A word phonetically identical to the mystery word with a different meaning
Plus, rules also say that a digit, a number, an acronym, an onomatopoeia or a special character can be considered as words.
And for the validation step:
- Identical words
- Variants from the same word family
- Variants of the same word (including gender, plurals and spelling mistakes)

Some gray areas:

- What if masculine / feminine words are very different and don't have the same root ? Example: hen / rooster.

- What if the foreign language is for example Latin but no-one is able to recognize the clue as the mystery word in disguise ? Example: canine as a clue for dog when canis is dog in Latin. Here we would have a word from the same family as the mystery word in a foreign language (a combination of two of the restrictions).

- What about strings made up of several hyphenated words ? I think, is a problem only in English (but I could be wrong). Example: tag-of-war.

- What if the acronym given as clue includes the mystery word ? Example: HSBC as a clue for bank when the B is for "banking".

(*) - What if a non-existing "word" is given because it complements the mystery word to form a valid word ? Examples: "tex" for "tile because of textile, "inci" for "pit" because of incipit, "sto" for "lid" because of stolid.
And what if the word exists although it has nothing to do with the mystery word ? Examples: "butter" for "fly" because of butterfly, "you" for "tube" because of youtube, the prefix "re" for "pair" because of repair, "at" for "tent" because of attent.

(*) - The rules don't mention suffixes or prefixes, which are not words. See https://www.lexico.com/grammar/prefixes-and-suffixes ("They are not words in their own right") or https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prefix ("they are word parts"). But it's common to see prefix / suffix clue while playin the game.

... (I'm sure there are more if keep combining restrictions and thinking creatively)

What is a family of words or the root of a word is not known by everyone, either. I've seen people arguing than working and walking could be a clash because they end with -ing (which is wrong, as this is not the root of the words, but simply the ending for gerunds). But, of course, we should not expect every player to be an expert in etymology or grammar, specially since all current games are played in English and most players are not English native speakers.

Now, to your question. Indeed, "biblioteca" is the Spanish word for library and "bibliotheca" (with an h) doesn't come from Spanish, but from the same place that Spanish took it from: https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dicti ... ibliotheca On one hand we have a clue that is a synonym of the mystery word that is a word in English (and synonyms are valid clues) and on the other hand we have a clue that is the mystery word in another language (which would make it an invalid clue). Which rule takes precedence ? I would say the first one, as speakers of a language are entitled to know the words of ther own language, but not their etymology. So for me it would be a valid clue.

Anyway. For the above reasons Just One is a great game for learning etymology and acquiring new vocabulary.


edit: (*) added
Last edited by aghagh on 21 August 2022, 12:53, edited 2 times in total.
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Jellby
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Joined: 31 December 2013, 12:22

Re: The Word Library and Its Synonym

Post by Jellby »

The promotional French video shows "chapeau" as a valid clue for "sombreros", when both mean the same ("hat") in French and Spanish, respectively (although, as in English, the word "sombrero" in French is used for the Mexican hat).
GeraldineMerida
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Re: The Word Library and Its Synonym

Post by GeraldineMerida »

I would not accept 'bibllioteca' as a valid clue word. Unlike 'sombrero', which was imported to English with a different, more specific meaning than 'hat', or 'parasol', which now means something different than 'umbrella', in my experience, 'bibllioteca' is not used either as a synonym for 'library' or as a sub-category of libraries, but only occurs in the proper names of a few libraries.
GeraldineMerida
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Re: The Word Library and Its Synonym

Post by GeraldineMerida »

aghagh wrote: 20 August 2022, 11:43

(*) - What if a non-existing "word" is given because it complements the mystery word to form a valid word ? Examples: "tex" for "tile because of textile, "inci" for "pit" because of incipit, "sto" for "lid" because of stolid.
And what if the word exists although it has nothing to do with the mystery word ? Examples: "butter" for "fly" because of butterfly, "you" for "tube" because of youtube, the prefix "re" for "pair" because of repair, "at" for "tent" because of attent.
The rules specifically disallow made-up words, so 'tex' or 'sto' would not be acceptable.

I'd say clues like 'butter' for 'fly' are just creative clueing. We had several examples of these in my games today and no-one queried any of them.
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aghagh
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Re: The Word Library and Its Synonym

Post by aghagh »

GeraldineMerida wrote: 22 August 2022, 03:39 I would not accept 'bibllioteca' as a valid clue word. Unlike 'sombrero', which was imported to English with a different, more specific meaning than 'hat', or 'parasol', which now means something different than 'umbrella', in my experience, 'bibllioteca' is not used either as a synonym for 'library' or as a sub-category of libraries, but only occurs in the proper names of a few libraries.
I would not accept "biblioteca" either, which is the Spanish word. But OP is referring to "BibliotHeca" (with an extra H), a very similar word that exists in English as an import from Greek, even if it's much less known. It's a bit tricky, yes. :)

I would also not accept those made-up words "tex" or "sto".
Last edited by aghagh on 22 August 2022, 17:01, edited 1 time in total.
pjt33
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Re: The Word Library and Its Synonym

Post by pjt33 »

GeraldineMerida wrote: 22 August 2022, 03:43 The rules specifically disallow made-up words, so 'tex' or 'sto' would not be acceptable.
"tex" is both a unit of measurement (the weight in grams of a kilometre of yarn) and (suitably capitalised) a proper noun, being a typesetting system familiar to many people in STEM or a colloquial term for a Texan.

"Sto" is a proper noun, being a place name in the Discworld novels.
GeraldineMerida
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Re: The Word Library and Its Synonym

Post by GeraldineMerida »

pjt33 wrote: 22 August 2022, 13:32
"Sto" is a proper noun, being a place name in the Discworld novels.
As I said, a made-up word, just made up by TP. :)

Thanks for the clarification about 'tex' though.
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aghagh
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Re: The Word Library and Its Synonym

Post by aghagh »

Ok, so I chose wrong examples to ilustrate my point as "tex" and "sto" seem to have a meaning (thanks for the info). Just pick you own examples, then. :)
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diamant
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Re: The Word Library and Its Synonym

Post by diamant »

otiluke711 wrote: 20 August 2022, 06:54Biblioteca is the Spanish word for library
The rule clearly states that you cannot use the translation of the Mystery Word in a foreign language as a clue. The use of that word in English doesn’t matter. The rule applies. End of discussion.
Smart kids who try to circumvent the rules in every conceivable way are generally not appreciated.
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