what is a "type" in artifacts of history expansion?

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Filboid
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Joined: 06 April 2020, 13:28

what is a "type" in artifacts of history expansion?

Post by Filboid »

Some of the artifacts refer to cards of a different (or same) type. What is a type?
Also, sometimes when I have an artifact with, for example, a castle/fort and I am stronger than my opponent, I get the message that the artifact will have no effect. Is this a bug or, more likely, I'm missing something. If the latter, what am I missing?
BTW, this expansion gives a new and enjoyable level of complexity. I look forward to more expansions.
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Micah Stairs
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Re: what is a "type" in artifacts of history expansion?

Post by Micah Stairs »

"type" actually refers to the set that the card comes from (base vs. artifacts).

I wonder if you are running into cards which say "I COMPEL"? That type of demand effect only affects opponents with as many or more of that icon as you.

Does that clear things up?
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djidjioops
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Re: what is a "type" in artifacts of history expansion?

Post by djidjioops »

it's not so clear for me, sorry i'm french, and the traduction of the cards in french is awfull for most of them
if i understand "type" is the name for cards comming from any extention ? :D
bananasplay
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Re: what is a "type" in artifacts of history expansion?

Post by bananasplay »

djidjioops wrote: 24 August 2022, 09:38 it's not so clear for me, sorry i'm french, and the traduction of the cards in french is awfull for most of them
if i understand "type" is the name for cards comming from any extention ? :D
As a language learner myself, I'm sympathetic to those trying to function in a language that is not native to them. :-) At the risk of over-explaining, allow me to share some thoughts and observations:

In English, "type" is not a name, per se, but is a common word used to indicate a classification or category of people, objects, or things (including non-physical things). A synonym would be "kind", as in "what kind of card is this?"

When discussing "type" in Innovation, context is very important.

For example, page 5 of the Innovation Deluxe rules says, "There are six basic icon types that appear on cards in Innovation."

On the Empire achievement, the text on the card is literally this: "Claim this special achievement immediately if you have three or more icons of all six types:".

When introducing the different actions of the basic game, page 6 says, "There are four types of action: Draw, Meld, Dogma, and Achieve."

(Note that in all examples above, "kinds" could have been used instead of "types" and the meaning would have remained the same.)

When only the basic game existed, it seems to me that the usage of "type" was sufficiently clear and could cause no confusion.

However, when expansions came into play, and in particular when card effects started "caring about" which set cards came from, the previous use of "type" could cause difficulty for native speakers (it did for me, initially), let alone those for whom English was not one's native language.

English doesn't have a single word that lends itself easily to answering only the question "which base or expansion set does this card come from?"; "type" is a word that can be used, but its normal meaning in the language, as demonstrated above, means that "type" could easily refer to other things or categories.

Having said all that, I'll now add the most important part of the rules for this discussion: page 10 of the rules, under the Keywords section, has this definition: "Type: The type of a card is which expansion it comes from."

For Micah Stairs: might it be helpful if "type" on card effects were capitalized as "Type" to subtly distinguish the word as being used in its keyword sense? (Even though this suggestion would cause BGA's implementation to diverge slightly from the physical printing of the game, I think it might be helpful. Note that on the Empire achievement, "type" should remain in lower case since its use there is not as a keyword but merely to refer to the different kinds of icons.) Perhaps you could run this by the designer or publisher?
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Micah Stairs
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Re: what is a "type" in artifacts of history expansion?

Post by Micah Stairs »

I personally never even noticed the Keywords section in the rule book. So if I as someone who spent 1 year implementing this expansion missed that definition, then I think most other players would overlook it as well.

We recently got permission from the game designer to reword this card. Once we've made the change on BGA, Baghdad Battery will read: "Meld two cards from your hand. If you melded two of the same color and they are from different sets, draw and score five 2s".

Do you think that will be clear enough?
bananasplay
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Re: what is a "type" in artifacts of history expansion?

Post by bananasplay »

Micah Stairs wrote: 24 August 2022, 14:27 I personally never even noticed the Keywords section in the rule book. So if I as someone who spent 1 year implementing this expansion missed that definition, then I think most other players would overlook it as well.
:-D

AFAIK, it only showed up in the rules for Innovation Deluxe; I have a PDF of the Third Edition's rules and "type" wasn't a keyword there. In other words, it's a result of expansions.
We recently got permission from the game designer to reword this card. Once we've made the change on BGA, Baghdad Battery will read: "Meld two cards from your hand. If you melded two of the same color and they are from different sets, draw and score five 2s".

Do you think that will be clear enough?
For this particular card, that sounds clear to me. (FWIW, though, I also didn't think that we were talking about a specific card in this thread. :-} )

However, If we're trying to steer away from the keyword "type" in order to be clearer, should other cards not be reworded in like fashion? I believe that Rosetta Stone also refers to "type", and I can't imagine that those are the only two...
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Micah Stairs
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Re: what is a "type" in artifacts of history expansion?

Post by Micah Stairs »

Ah good point. So Papyrus of Ani, Rosetta Stone, and Baghdad Battery appear to be the only 3 cards in the Artifacts set which refer to a "card type".

I'll add a comment to https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/163278 ... 6#40509776 and see if Carl is open to me changing the wording on the other two cards as well.
bananasplay
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Re: what is a "type" in artifacts of history expansion?

Post by bananasplay »

Micah Stairs wrote: 25 August 2022, 15:55 Ah good point. So Papyrus of Ani, Rosetta Stone, and Baghdad Battery appear to be the only 3 cards in the Artifacts set which refer to a "card type".
Wow; I'd expected that there would be more, but I simply haven't seen all the Artifacts yet. (And I have no idea about most of the Relics.)
I'll add a comment to https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/163278 ... 6#40509776 and see if Carl is open to me changing the wording on the other two cards as well.
Nice—bonus points for putting the changes in bold in that post. :-)

Possibly related: since it sounds like prep work is also being done for other expansions, allow me to mention this: I'd searched for "type" in the list of cards on Isotropic to see where "type" was used in the sense of this keyword, and I found exactly one: John Harrison, an age-6 Figure. If you're getting Carl's permission now for wording changes, and if Figures is on the menu for you, you may want to have a look at that card, too. :-)

Hope that helps!
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bananasplay
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Re: what is a "type" in artifacts of history expansion?

Post by bananasplay »

bananasplay wrote: 25 August 2022, 18:52 Possibly related: since it sounds like prep work is also being done for other expansions, allow me to mention this: I'd searched for "type" in the list of cards on Isotropic to see where "type" was used in the sense of this keyword, and I found exactly one: John Harrison, an age-6 Figure. If you're getting Carl's permission now for wording changes, and if Figures is on the menu for you, you may want to have a look at that card, too. :-)
(I should also mention that I have no idea what changes were made to the other expansions for the Third Edition; I've mostly played with the expansions on Isotropic, which has only the prior edition. So, if Carl changed any cards to refer to "type" as a keyword, I'll have no idea about that.)
Please check my profile for a list of bugs that need upvotes so that BGA will maybe get around to fixing them.
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Micah Stairs
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Re: what is a "type" in artifacts of history expansion?

Post by Micah Stairs »

We just replaced the word "type" with "set" on these four Artifact cards with consent from the game designer and publisher! This should clear up the confusion.
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