How does anyone gain ELO in this game?

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Snowcrash000
Posts: 18
Joined: 10 September 2022, 00:15

How does anyone gain ELO in this game?

Post by Snowcrash000 »

It really blows my mind that there are people sitting at 1500+ ELO for this game, which goes for any heavily randomized dice game, really. I just keep going back and forth between 100 and 300 ELO and I honestly don't understand how anyone can win at a game that is this random and luck-based consistently enough to gain that kind of ELO.

Yes, I realize that there is descision-making involved in this game, but let's face it, random outcomes are at the heart of it. I*m not trying to troll here, I honestly don't understand how anyone can consistently gain ELO in a game that essentially is all about random dice rolls. Of course this essentially goes for all dice and card games with heaily randomised outcomes, I just play KoT the most.
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Mikeman96
Posts: 1
Joined: 28 August 2021, 08:29

Re: How does anyone gain ELO in this game?

Post by Mikeman96 »

The same way people gain ELO in a game without random elements like dice rolls or cards, by playing and making decisions better than their opponents.

The only difference with random elements is variance in short-term results.You could get a string of bad rolls or a string of good rolls.

With good decisions however, you can essentially tilt the odds in your favor each game. So over a long string of games, A player who makes better decisions will win more games/finish higher in average placement(and thus steadily gain ELO) than someone making worse moves.

This is coming from someone who was, at one point the 4th highest ELO with over 300 ELO in Fluxx with over 200+ games played. Fluxx is probably one of the most random games on this entire site.But with card counting/deck memorization,good decisions, a good amount of luck, and only playing players around my ELO. I was able to rise to 300+ Elo
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jesslc
Posts: 10
Joined: 06 November 2012, 17:56

Re: How does anyone gain ELO in this game?

Post by jesslc »

Are you looking at the top players' arena points rankings instead at of their ELO? Because I just looked up King of Tokyo and the top players' ELOs on the all-time ranking are in the high 400s. Pretty much the kind of ELOs to be expected for a game with this much luck.

I don't really understand how the arena points work myself having just barely started in Arena with my top game, but I do know that they are definitely not the same thing as ELO.
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thoun
Posts: 625
Joined: 10 December 2020, 22:25

Re: How does anyone gain ELO in this game?

Post by thoun »

jesslc wrote: 12 September 2022, 12:59 Are you looking at the top players' arena points rankings instead at of their ELO? Because I just looked up King of Tokyo and the top players' ELOs on the all-time ranking are in the high 400s. Pretty much the kind of ELOs to be expected for a game with this much luck.

I don't really understand how the arena points work myself having just barely started in Arena with my top game, but I do know that they are definitely not the same thing as ELO.
I think you're right, there's a misunderstanding between ELO and Elite Arena ranking. Arana Elite ranking is explained here : https://boardgamearena.com/faq?anchor=f ... hatiselite
So it's a ranking amongst best arena players, so 1500 is not that good, being 1st in arena is much more complicated :D
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Meeplelowda
Posts: 429
Joined: 14 March 2020, 10:31

Re: How does anyone gain ELO in this game?

Post by Meeplelowda »

thoun wrote: 12 September 2022, 14:09
jesslc wrote: 12 September 2022, 12:59 Are you looking at the top players' arena points rankings instead at of their ELO? Because I just looked up King of Tokyo and the top players' ELOs on the all-time ranking are in the high 400s. Pretty much the kind of ELOs to be expected for a game with this much luck.

I don't really understand how the arena points work myself having just barely started in Arena with my top game, but I do know that they are definitely not the same thing as ELO.
I think you're right, there's a misunderstanding between ELO and Elite Arena ranking. Arana Elite ranking is explained here : https://boardgamearena.com/faq?anchor=f ... hatiselite
So it's a ranking amongst best arena players, so 1500 is not that good, being 1st in arena is much more complicated :D
Yes, the baseline rating in Arena is 1500, although it remains hidden until you get to Elite. (I know you know this thoun, but others, like the OP, do not)
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Mathew5000
Posts: 17
Joined: 02 January 2021, 01:41

Re: How does anyone gain ELO in this game?

Post by Mathew5000 »

This is an interesting question because it elucidates the difference between games of pure chance (perhaps Candyland is one example) and games of mixed chance and skill (such as poker). The answer by Mikeman96 is spot-on.

Knowing the probability of certain dice results, or at least having a good intuitive sense, and then making your strategic decisions accordingly, of course will not guarantee that you win a specific game, but it will increase your chance of winning it.

For example, here's a specific scenario. Suppose you have 19VP, and your only chance of getting another point is by rolling 111, 222, or 333. A couple of your opponents are also at 19VP. On your first roll you get: 123[heart][heart][heart]. Obviously you will not keep any of the hearts, but which number or numbers do you keep to maximize your probability of winning this game?

Incidentally, it is entirely understandable why the OP interpreted those "elite" point counts here as ELO. I'm sure lots of people make that mistake.
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