Keep or remove this TTA version?

[sourisdudesert]

Dear TTA players,

For years now, a new edition of TTA is available, and according to -almost- every player it is far superior to the original.

At now, 98% of BGA games are played with the new edition, and only 2% with the old one.

Thus, we are wondering if it would not be better to keep only the new version. The benefits would be:

• Some beginners are lost because there are 2 different TTA on BGA, and are redirected to the "wrong" version (when you type "Through the Ages online" on Google for example, it directs you to the old edition). They may be disappointed which is sad for the TTA players community
• The old TTA tables have difficulty to find opponents, while removing the old TTA will increase the number of TTA players by 2%, reducing the waiting time.
• For the Arena: at now there are 2 "TTA Arena champions". The "new TTA champion" title is really something difficult to achieve, while the "old TTA" achievement is way more easy since there are 50 times less players...

What is your though about this?

[bananasplay]

What is your though about this?

I'll answer this question first because I want to start more generally, and only get into specifics afterwards.

My thoughts in general are that I appreciate that both versions are here on BGA, and moreover that they are two distinct implementations, with different stats and Arena ladders and everything (even though I don't personally play Arena for this game). Having learned the classic and taught it to friends, I may eventually wish to try the newer edition, but I have no desire to see the old edition go.

I have some specific thoughts to your other questions, which I'll now address:

[*] Some beginners are lost because there are 2 different TTA on BGA, and are redirected to the "wrong" version (when you type "Through the Ages online" on Google for example, it directs you to the old edition). They may be disappointed which is sad for the TTA players community :(

If I were to search for "through the ages online", I would want exactly the result that you describe; if I wanted "through the ages a new story of civilization", then that's what I should be searching for. It's unfortunate that the designer chose a name so similar as to engender confusion (it's certainly made my life more difficult when searching for rule clarifications), but that's what we have to live with. :-p

To alleviate your concern, though, what about adding text on each of the game pages to point to the reciprocal game? Somewhere on the game page for the original you might have "This is the game page for the original classic Through the Ages. Looking for Through the Ages: A New Story of Civilization? Click here!"

Similarly, on the new edition's page, you could have "This is the game page for Through the Ages: A New Story of Civilization. Looking for the original classic Through the Ages? Click here!"

[*] The old TTA tables have difficulty to find opponents, while removing the old TTA will increase the number of TTA players by 2%, reducing the waiting time.

As for this, I would not assume that all players of TtA would automatically migrate to TtA: ANSoC.

[*] For the Arena: at now there are 2 "TTA Arena champions". The "new TTA champion" title is really something difficult to achieve, while the "old TTA" achievement is way more easy since there are 50 times less players...

I'm not sure why this is an issue. Games which are less popular are going to have fewer serious competitors than more popular games. I think that the people who know about the games will understand the differences and that comparing leagues would be an apples-to-oranges comparison. Presumably the league for the original TtA awards less XP for the champions and such, based on these lower participation rates: lesser rewards for an easier achievement—sounds reasonable to me.

In any event, thanks for soliciting player feedback!

[Jellby]

I would have expected both versions to be the same game, and a table option to select the version to play.

[bananasplay]

I would have expected both versions to be the same game, and a table option to select the version to play.

I'm aware that this is the case for some other games (such as 7 Wonders and its new edition, and for the original and Second Edition of Great Western Trail).

But I'm grateful that this is not the case for Through the Ages and A New Story, as this allows for completely separate stats to be kept for the two games, and I wish this were the case for those other games.

[spotcard]

I much prefer the old version, though I will play the new version. I see the new version as a training wheels version, toning down the military. It is good for new players to learn on, as the old version can be very harsh, but the old version is more exciting. Please keep the old version.

[The Kestrel]

Please keep the old version.

While the new version smooths some of the rough edges of the original, there is a charm, and some strategies which are changed from the new to the old.

Thus, having both is great!

Thank you for all the hard work in maintaining this great site.

[gamblerch]

Can add Leaders and Wonders expansions ?

[ThatScar]

Please change the title of this old version or something.

I was browsing through the list of all games I haven't played and Through the Ages was in the top 10 row or so, I saved it as a favourite, later saw a table open, joined the game (from lobby, I did not open table view), soon clicked Accept and only then found out it was different. I thought "the graphics look terrible but that's OK, it doesn't seem that different". Well, I wouldn't mind the existence of differences but this old version is definitely worse in just about every way. Made me sad and angry. Luckily, my opponents were good sports and it was nice to chat, despite frustrations (and me being a slowpoke). After the game, I went to forums just now and only now because of this very forum thread found out the new version is also available.

I definitely think A New Story of Civilization is not a new game but just an edition - BGG description literally reads "is the new edition". I don't care about rating/statistics/arenas but that sounds like a global BGA problem that it cannot be split up between editions. It's probably too big of a change to change all of BGA to facilitate that but that's not the real problem.

So the problem is a lack of communication, I think. I am definitely not playing this version again but removal seems like overkill - surely, it's possible to make players aware there's a newer edition in some other way? Changing this version's name, a lobby warning or a prompt at start of game to check out the new version or all of the above are just a few solutions that hopefully don't impact existing players.

[ThatScar]

(OK, I exaggerated and it wasn't on row 10 at all, more like 50... which is decidedly quite far to scroll down and my problem is likely rare since the new edition is much higher, I just missed it)

[ThatScar]

Just to reiterate: not just my problem but 2 other strangers also did not know about newer edition existing on BGA. One of them had played this old version before, the other was confused about it not being the same version they know (same as me).