Question about faction set up

[Zulu]

Probably a daft question but I'm setting up a game and the options for faction set up are not quite clear to me.

The first option is choose factions and says 'set up as in the rules'. But in the rules it refers to factions 'as above'. Does that mean for say 4 players the factions are set as in the rules ie for four players there are only 4 factions to choose from or will the first player choosing be able to choose any faction from all of them.

The second option 'draft selected factions' says 'Draft selected factions to bid from'. Does that mean the person setting up can choose the factions to be bid for and if so what is used for bidding as at that stage all players have nothing?

The third option is 'draft random factions' says 'bid on randomly selected factions'. Presumably the system chooses which factions but how many random factions will be offered and again what is used for bidding?

Thanks in advance.

[Kayvon]

The first option is choose factions and says 'set up as in the rules'. But in the rules it refers to factions 'as above'.

It's exactly the starting scenario shown in the rule book for the first game, which varies based on the number of players. As stated in the rules, factions are assigned to players based on the player order. And, per BGA, player order is always randomly assigned.

The second option 'draft selected factions' says 'Draft selected factions to bid from'.

Each player chooses a faction to bid on, then all players bid VP on who wants which factions. There's a full description in the How to Play wiki, which is present on the bottom of each GP game.

The third option is 'draft random factions' says 'bid on randomly selected factions'. Presumably the system chooses which factions but how many random factions will be offered and again what is used for bidding?

If there are four players, there will be four factions. Same as above, but the game decides which factions are up for grabs.

Again, you'll find full details in the How to Play that seemingly no one notices. If something is still unclear there, come follow up here and/or edit the section to clarify for future users.

[Corwin007]

I just started a game with this and I read the how to play, and it still makes no sense to me. Maybe it does behind the scenes, but it's completely opaque for the players. I still don't get how we all ended up with 0 vps bid. I'd rather have something transparent even if it takes longer to finish the auction. Or have an actual example in the How to play.

By the way, the how to play talks about second and third player being able to overbid. Who are the second and third player? I saw no indication of player order in the bidding phase in my game. Maybe I didn't look where I should have, but it's definitely not indicated in the normal place, in the player summary.

[Corwin007]

The log is saying I wanted max 15 vp for Terrans which I don't remember doing, but... who knows; maybe I remember incorrectly, or maybe I misread the interface?! It would be nice to at least see our own bids for each faction in the logs, as of now this is pretty opaque.

[Kayvon]

I take issue with your claim that it's completely opaque to players. The "How to Play" describes it quite well. The log tells you what occurs with each individual bid. Now, if you're saying it's confusing, that's different. I'd be happy to clarify if you can explain which elements are confusing for you or if you provide a table number or log reference.

By the way, the how to play talks about second and third player being able to overbid. Who are the second and third player?

Those are the other players you are playing with (in a three player game).

I saw no indication of player order in the bidding phase in my game. Maybe I didn't look where I should have, but it's definitely not indicated in the normal place, in the player summary.

It's right there, actually, in the player panels with a rather large number near the time remaining. I think you maybe just overlooked it.

Let's take a look at the How to Play section together and see if we can puzzle out where you're confused.

Each player submits bids for every faction that has been drafted. Once all bids are submitted, a round-robin auction is automatically conducted in turn order until each player has the top bid on one faction.


A typical auction might look like this behind the scenes.

1) The first player bids zero VP on the faction that has his highest maximum bid (i.e. the faction he wanted most)

2) If the second player submitted the same top bid for two different factions, he'll automatically bid zero on the faction no one has picked yet. If he had placed a higher bid on the same faction as player 1, he would have increased that bid to one VP instead.

3) The third player looks at the current bids and compares those to his maximum bid. He'll automatically bid one higher on the faction with the greatest difference between his maximum bid and the current bid of that faction.


This is all resolved quickly and automatically behind the scenes. It's not uncommon for players to get factions for free if no one outbids them.

After the auction, all players are given VP so that the player that paid the most still starts with 10 VP to use during the game.

Without knowing exactly what's confusing you, the best I can do is try to guess. Let's walk through it. Tell me which step is throwing you.
1) I'm guessing the you placed a max bid 15VP for the faction you wanted most.
2) When it was your turn to place a bid, you (automatically) saw that you could get the faction you most wanted for free because no one else had bid on it yet, so you placed a current bid of 0 VP for it.
3) Other players did likewise. Maybe another player even had a tie for which two factions he wanted, but (automatically) saw that you had bid on one of them, so rather than outbid you by paying 1VP, he (automatically, still) bid 0 on the other one that he most wanted.
4) Consequently, everyone got a faction they wanted by bidding 0 VP on each faction. Because no one ever outbid you, you never had to raise your bid. You never had to spend the full 15VP that you allotted.

[Corwin007]

Got it. I'm still not a fan of having information lost from the logs, as I'm currently wondering if I indeed bid 15 vp (as the log says), or if it's an error, and I can't see what I bid on the other factions.

As for "the second and third player", I know who they are. What I'm saying is that there was never a turn order marker before we got our factions.

Also, gonna post a suggestion (unless someone else already did) to clearly mark picked for draft, banned, and no longer available factions (due to the other one of the same color being picked). It was quite confusing since all were grayed out, but at least the logs helped with that one.

[Kayvon]

Got it. I'm still not a fan of having information lost from the logs, as I'm currently wondering if I indeed bid 15 vp (as the log says), or if it's an error, and I can't see what I bid on the other factions.

If you post your table number, I'd be happy to take a look. But, yes, the game is using the values you provided for it.

As for "the second and third player", I know who they are. What I'm saying is that there was never a turn order marker before we got our factions.

Again, I'd be happy to look at your table replay and double check, but I know the turn order is displayed on the player panels throughout the game.

Also, gonna post a suggestion

By all means. The place to do that, of course, is in the bugs/suggestion area. There's a link at the top of each forum page.

[Corwin007]

307485925 is the table number.

And yeah, gonna post the suggestion through the bug/suggestions mechanism, just thought about it yesterday while I was writing in here.

[Kayvon]

Your game is still in progress, so there's no replay yet. Want to post when it's done?