Do most people study the strategy tips for new games, or ignore and learn through playing?

[justheada]

I find it's much easier to enjoy playing a new heavier game in person rather than on BGA. In person I'll see examples of strategies around the table and will get hints or corrections about things I am totally wrong about.

In asynchronous online games that kind of experience is generally not available. Following others actions asynchronous is pretty difficult until you understand a game pretty well.

I've tried several games on BGA that I initially disliked a lot, even after multiple tries. Then that game will later come up in a league where I have no choice but to play it again. That's often when I search out hints or tips online. I'm not good enough to understand everything that is available in any strategy hints then, but I pick up a few basic rules of thumb. Generally after this I'm still mediocre at the game. But I enjoy it so much more that I will now want to play it often enough to learn more about different strategies by experience.

[robinzig]

My view is that any game that one feels is in any way "ruined" by simply knowing some *really basic* strategy hints (and most of what you find on BGA in the "strategy" section, for any game of any depth, is at the "really basic" level if it's even correct at all - most often it's just one player's opinion), that game isn't worth playing and you've probably done yourself a favour by skipping the introductory stage of learning the basics beyond the rules where you might have thought that the game was actually somewhat deep.

To be clear, I can't actually think of a concrete game on BGA of which this is true - although I don't doubt it must be for some, given the number of different games here. I'm mostly saying that I don't understand the complaints about these real strategy basics being available. Not that I don't understand and can't sympathise with those who prefer not to look at them - sometimes I feel the same. But that's a personal choice. Criticising those who do choose to read them, or those who offer advice to others so that they don't stay at the level of rank beginner for too long, seems to me completely pointless and mean-spririted.

[AlbusMalum]

Most strategy tips (at least those that I've read of the game we played) aren't incredibly in depth. The strategy tips for games aren't usually "If a player makes move A, then do move B, or if a player makes move C, do move A," or something along those lines. It seems (of course, I could always be wrong) like all the people who don't like the strategy tips have never read them, and assuming that the strategy tips are an incredibly in-depth guide on how to win every time.

[Swfcdan]

Just remembered I hadn't checked the replies for this thread!
Interesting responses thanks guys. I agree now that people should be able to do whatever they find fun, whether it's reading strategy advice soon after learning a new game, or learning through experience. I'm definately in the latter category, enjoy learning through experience myself- at least in terms of board games anyway but any kind of games I guess. I find the fun is learning new strategies during games (whether from myself figuring it out or watching someone else do something clever) and the moment things click and you realise "ahh thats how I should do it!", but imagine others want to become a good standard quickly and that's fine too.
I wish the strategy tips were a little more hidden, but apart from that I guess I can't complain .

[Meeplelowda]

I agree now that people should be able to do whatever they find fun

I wish the strategy tips were a little more hidden

If people should be able to do whatever they want, why should they have to hunt for the information? You still seem to be in favor of imposing a barrier to accessing it. That is just a milder version of the suggestion that it should be taken away entirely because they can Google it anyway and get it from other sources.

[SonicJuz]

No answer since a few month but I feel like as a new BGA user I have some more tales to tell. I discovered most of it by encountering situations where I was not prepared enough.

The first thing is that playing on BGA is not to be compared to RL board gaming: you can't really pause the game to get hints, can't play the chaotic manner I usually like to play first games to discover the mechanics extreme responses (bc it can be fun with people you know and talk with but will not impose it on people that like to be very serious about every aspect and frown upon excentricities), can't count on any social response to whatever you're doing.

I signed in here because I cannot play IRL these years (for several reasons that aren't worth mentioning), so it means I will be new to almost any set of rules, any strategic bases, and any "kill the game" behavior.

I do not wish that people that play with me feel like it's boring, I do not wish either to kill the game unvoluntarily (not that it happened to my knowledge, lol) nor to play and be railroaded by other's knowledge: most of time, people using these tactics are not willing to explain them not to share any counterattack (and in reverse as shown in this thread not all people are willing to learn them out of trying). If generally, people are kind to beginners, it's not an absolute rule, and I've felt some people being annoyed by my mishaps. Not a nice feeling for either of the player.

While I'm not a competitive player (it's not in my nature even when I'm doing sports, I like crunch times but at the end I don't really care about losing if it's not the tenth time that I fail bc the same reason that I seem not being able to get), the elo system tends to make people more competitive that they may intend or wish to be. Some people will not give basic advices bc they will feel that this adversary to their position (especially in lower tiers I feel).

This means the general attitude toward a new player can be good humored but you can't count on it. So new players may need to rely on basic strategy hints (some of are sometime present in tutorials) to take their place in the community.

I'm a long time chess player (but not a very skilled one), and whenever I play with my kids, I know they cannot win, but try to make it entertaining for them, and if possible for me, what I mostly do by sharing a bit of strategy, either during the game if they feel like it, or after it. This strategy is never killing the game nor an iron rule, chess being chess, but is also never presented as one, because I wish them to be able to reflect first on their errors and not mimicking a "winning" move. It also give them access to more elaborated strategies, because most of time, you *cannot* get a really strong strategy without being able to get a bunch of more basic strategies to work.

To end this, I have to say that for now, I feel like I'm not able to play on BGA cooperative games (and what I read about Hanabi comforts that) or very complex games unless I play them IRL beforehand, basiscally because of these assumptions I've just written about here.

[Romain672]

I feel like I'm not able to play on BGA cooperative games (and what I read about Hanabi comforts that)

It's the second time I read that, and I strongly disagree.
I think that outside of Hanabi and The crew which is light in conventions, there isn't much conventions in those coops games.
Am I wrong?

[pjt33]

The first thing is that playing on BGA is not to be compared to RL board gaming: you can't really pause the game to get hints, can't play the chaotic manner I usually like to play first games to discover the mechanics extreme responses (bc it can be fun with people you know and talk with but will not impose it on people that like to be very serious about every aspect and frown upon excentricities), can't count on any social response to whatever you're doing.

No guarantees, but you can try using the manual table setup to create a training mode game with a custom message. In the old forum, where it says "(no presentation yet)" you can click and put a message which will be displayed in the forum. Sadly this seems to be one of the useful things that the new forum removes because the graphic designers value aesthetics over functionality.

So you can say something like "Looking for players who don't mind me trying wacky things while I learn the game".

[pjt33]

I feel like I'm not able to play on BGA cooperative games (and what I read about Hanabi comforts that)

It's the second time I read that, and I strongly disagree.
I think that outside of Hanabi and The crew which is light in conventions, there isn't much conventions in those coops games.
Am I wrong?

The other one which comes to mind for me is trick-taking games, where there can be some level of expected cooperation without being fully cooperative. E.g. in Solo Whist, you don't want to get partnered with someone who starts by leading their tops and destroying potential finesses.

[SonicJuz]

I think that outside of Hanabi and The crew which is light in conventions, there isn't much conventions in those coops games.
Am I wrong?

It's not (only) about conventions, but about having to learn strategies beforehand, which, if there isn't a message about it in the game-related forum, isn't possible without... having already played - to go back to the topic of studying strategic tips here.
I specified it about coop games, because with competitive games I already saw some people being - rightfully I intend to say - annoyed about lack of strategic consistencies. I have to add I also met many many very friendly players too, and many that have helped! I'm just not very good at acccepting the prospect to face discontent, and again, wished to speak *for* the need of at least basic strategy discussions threads.

No guarantees, but you can try using the manual table setup to create a training mode game with a custom message. In the old forum, where it says "(no presentation yet)"

Thank you for mentioning this possibility! I haven't been aware of what use that button was. Hoping people don't hop on the table without checking, naturally.