Distinct disadvantage for 1st position and advantage for last position

[blhootz]

I came here to post this exact same thing, so I'm glad to see so many others in agreement. To the person who thought that this would lead to too many tied games, the game designer apparently doesn't have a problem with tied games, as they say in the rulebook, "All players who correctly guessed the central tiles win." For those of use who enjoy this sort of game — as my whole family does — it really is more about the enjoyment of figuring it out than about trying to win. But losing because someone else had more clues than you did definitely sucks the enjoyment out of it. Ties are okay, though!

I'd be perfectly happy if this were an official variant implemented here, but clearly this is how I'd play it if we were playing in real space around the same table: Every question is part of its own "round". Different people get to ask the question each round. But as soon as *anyone* makes a successful guess, *everyone* else gets one chance to guess, themselves. That way, everyone *truly* is guessing based on the same number of clues. (Not just the same number of "turns" as described in the original base game and implemented here.)

I hope this can find a way to become a real option here. My family enjoyed the premise of the game, but was greatly let down by this one element.

[Denis]

I see several people complaining about the flaw in the implementation for 3 and 4 player games that advantages the later players significantly. I also see several people (myself included) that will no longer play this game in these player counts.

The response from the developer has been that no changes will be made to address this, since
1) it would be a "house rule"
2) the publisher/designer is against a change
3) BGA policy does not allow implementing "house rules" unless approved by the publisher

The official rules (I checked English and French) are consistent with the implementation on BGA:
1) you only guess on your turn instead of asking a question
2) once someone has guessed correctly, you finish the round ("so that very player has the same number of turns")
3) then it says "All players who correctly guessed the central tiles win"

So the implementation is faithful. That said, the way the rules are written, it almost reads like an oversight. For example, it says "All players who correctly guessed the central tiles win." Meaning, does the writer realize that the direct implication is that the 1st player may ask a question, giving everyone the answer, then not be able to participate in guessing?

I couldn't find the BGA policy on house rules. There is a developer guideline that says "Fidelity to the original game is an absolute requirement". In fact, I know some games (like Hand & Foot) are full of house rules in the configuration (though that probably is a public domain game). But there could be other BGA policy documentation I haven't seen.

So for fans of the game who would like to see this improved, what can we do?

A) confirm or make an argument that house rules should be allowed here as optional configuration options at least.
B) boycott 3 and 4 player games, and see if anyone cares?
C) petition the publisher to allow a "house rule"

[Denis]

I see that a new "Competitive Game" option has been added, which plays the game over multiple rounds and rotates the player order each time. I like this idea and am going to jump back in to some 3-4p games to try it out!

[Izno33]

I find it odd that no one mention this: the first player doesn't have to ask a helpful question. In a four player game, if someone asked the count of odd numbers, you can ask the count of even numbers so that the other players don't have any more information.
That's also part of the strategy.

[bananasplay]

I find it odd that no one mention this: the first player doesn't have to ask a helpful question. In a four player game, if someone asked the count of odd numbers, you can ask the count of even numbers so that the other players don't have any more information.
That's also part of the strategy.

Clever!

[-Lieven-]

I find it odd that no one mention this: the first player doesn't have to ask a helpful question. In a four player game, if someone asked the count of odd numbers, you can ask the count of even numbers so that the other players don't have any more information.
That's also part of the strategy.

Yes, but in a game of mine with 4 players, we remained with only 2, because 2 players did a wrong guess. I could then ask a non-helpful question, so my opponent doesn't get any more information. But if he does the same, the game will never end..., so I asked a helpful question, which led to a win for my opponent, because I didn't get an opportunity to guess again. So I still don't think it is fair.

[Sombracier]

play in "competitive" mode : each one play a match in every position, then the odds are even ! fair and square.