Join a game, it’s immediately your turn, not playing

[Fuchur]

It seems to me that you didn't understand what i wrote: I'm not fine with players abandoning one of my tables. And i will close tables when there isn't any hope that they will continue.

You said you have no hard feelings towards the guy who abandoned your game for 11 days, would you have been bothered by a player who kicked them once they were in the red instead of waiting 11 days first?

Yes, if someone would close that table immediately after someone gets red, without giving good reasons for doing so, i would really think that the "kicker" is infrequentable. I'm perhaps not the only one --- there are some complaints about "kickers" in tournaments.

BUT -- this holds only for turnwise tables, under the condition that i can still join other tables : As long as a game proceeds, even when a player is in the red, i will continue to play it. The idea of seeing somebody taking more time than initially agreed and thinking immediately : "Oh my goodness, now i will have to wait one week until i can finally kick that guy" is totally strange to me.

The idea of having multiple tables of the same game is totally strange to me. I have no problem with people doing it, but as I have made clear previously, I do not like it myself. I frequently do not have more than 2 or 3 tables going at a time, and they are different games. One of which I am quite interested in playing, and 1 that is a more casual game I can quickly pop in and out of. So when someone is taking noticeably longer turn times it's not "I have to wait a week to kick the guy" it's "I have to wait a week before I can finally leave this table and go join another one to actually play this game."

If you do only play two or three games, why don't you concentrate on real time games ?

And i still don't understand why you don't join immediately another table, hopefully without lame players. If your diagnostic of dying tables is as good as you seem to think it is, you will be able to destroy the original table after a few days (no need to think about your actions there) and you don't waste one week waiting to do that.

Same logic ? I prefer to finish every game i've started. Sometimes they don't because a player never returned. But as long as everybody is still onboard, even when slightly over time, i would like to see the end and it's really annoying that some players feel the need to punish others for being late by kicking them.

I find it really annoying that some players feel the need to slow down games by joining tables they can't meet the time commitments for, instead of just joining tables with longer turn times that match how often they can actually take their turn.

If players just joined tables they could actually meet the time requirements for they wouldn't be able to be kicked by "impatient players", both of our problems would be solved.

I don't think that anyone here "feels the need to slow down games" (there might be some rare exceptions).
Most of the lame players will have more or less good reasons of being late, some of them even valid in your eyes.

And some table settings are just stupid : For instance 4 moves/day, leaving just 6 hours/turn. I guess that the overwhelming majority of players here spend more than 6 hours away from the site during their sleep.
So, with some bad luck, the player before you makes his turn just after you left and you will lose some hours. With more bad luck this arrives regularly and it is never your turn while you're on the site, so eventually you will get into the red and someone might kick you. This might even be true for all players on this table.
So -- why are these tables proposed and joined ? Because it usually works out fine, even if every now and then someone will exceed his time (and obviously without feeling the need to slow down that table).

[Cile]

You said you have no hard feelings towards the guy who abandoned your game for 11 days, would you have been bothered by a player who kicked them once they were in the red instead of waiting 11 days first?

Yes, if someone would close that table immediately after someone gets red, without giving good reasons for doing so, i would really think that the "kicker" is infrequentable. I'm perhaps not the only one --- there are some complaints about "kickers" in tournaments.

But the result is the same : You don't get to finish your game. The game with the "kicker" just didn't have to wait 11 days to figure that out.

If you do only play two or three games, why don't you concentrate on real time games ?

Because I like to be able to take my time with my turn without feeling like I'm holding anyone up. I don't see how this is somehow my fault when I am playing within the rules of the table I joined, and getting frustrated at people who can't follow the rules of the table and are going into the red. Why don't they concentrate on tables with longer turn times?

And i still don't understand why you don't join immediately another table, hopefully without lame players. If your diagnostic of dying tables is as good as you seem to think it is, you will be able to destroy the original table after a few days (no need to think about your actions there) and you don't waste one week waiting to do that.

I've tried that, I don't enjoy it. I should be allowed to play games in the way I prefer and join tables that match my preferences. Just as other people can play in the way they prefer and should be joining tables with appropriate turn times for themselves. When I create or join a table I am saying "I want to play this game at this speed." Someone who is unable or unwilling to play that game or at that speed should not be playing at that table. I don't understand why some people find that so controversial.

I don't think that anyone here "feels the need to slow down games" (there might be some rare exceptions).
Most of the lame players will have more or less good reasons of being late, some of them even valid in your eyes.

I am not upset by an opponent being slow for the occasional turn, but if it happens the first turn of the game that is definitely not a good sign. If an opponent takes up twice their turn time on the first turn but then proceeds to play at a reasonable pace then I will assume something must have come up and not be bothered by it.

My frustration comes from players where taking their turn within the turn time of the table is the exception. If it is a 1 turn / day table and the majority of their turns are taking longer than 24 hours that isn't something unexpected just happening to come up every single day. That is someone indifferent to the rules of the table they joined and should be paying attention to table speeds and picking one with longer turn times.

Yes, sometimes things come up, and that's what the time bank is for. Once you have exceeded the time bank and are in the red you have used up your "something has come up" grace period and the other players should be free to leave the table to join one that is playing at the pace they want to play at.

And some table settings are just stupid : For instance 4 moves/day, leaving just 6 hours/turn. I guess that the overwhelming majority of players here spend more than 6 hours away from the site during their sleep.
So, with some bad luck, the player before you makes his turn just after you left and you will lose some hours. With more bad luck this arrives regularly and it is never your turn while you're on the site, so eventually you will get into the red and someone might kick you. This might even be true for all players on this table.
So -- why are these tables proposed and joined ? Because it usually works out fine, even if every now and then someone will exceed his time (and obviously without feeling the need to slow down that table).

I'm sure the majority of 4 moves/day tables do not have players dipping into the red. I don't join those tables because I'm not sure if I could meet the time commitment.

[Mr_Magic]

You are fundamentally misunderstanding my complaint here: if the table is 1 move per day and my opponent is taking 26+ hours to take every turn they will run out of time, they just haven't yet. It's a forgone conclusion and just a waste of time until they get ejected.

I'm not proposing BGA change anything (other than maybe decreasing the time bank on turn based games to a maximum of 48 hours banked), but it's not unreasonable to complain about players joining games they can't meet the time commitment for and wasting your time, even if after a week of waiting you can finally eject them and try again with someone else.

I understand you may prefer not to have multiple tables running at once, but this really is the solution to this issue. start or Join another table. it sounds like this slow running game is not taking up too much of your attention anyway, plenty of space for a game youc an actually enjoy, and you never know, the slower player might pick things up at some stage.

[Fuchur]

You said you have no hard feelings towards the guy who abandoned your game for 11 days, would you have been bothered by a player who kicked them once they were in the red instead of waiting 11 days first?

Yes, if someone would close that table immediately after someone gets red, without giving good reasons for doing so, i would really think that the "kicker" is infrequentable. I'm perhaps not the only one --- there are some complaints about "kickers" in tournaments.

But the result is the same : You don't get to finish your game. The game with the "kicker" just didn't have to wait 11 days to figure that out.

No, it's not the same. It is extremely rare that a player never shows up again (beside the exemple i have recently run into i don't remember any other case on BGA), but it is quite common that players are getting into the red at one moment. You decide to kill the table at that moment while i give him a chance to recover.

If you do only play two or three games, why don't you concentrate on real time games ?

Because I like to be able to take my time with my turn without feeling like I'm holding anyone up.

Ok, you don't like realtime games (i don't, either). No problem with that but why didn't you say so in the beginning ?

I don't see how this is somehow my fault when I am playing within the rules of the table I joined, and getting frustrated at people who can't follow the rules of the table and are going into the red. Why don't they concentrate on tables with longer turn times?

And i still don't understand why you don't join immediately another table, hopefully without lame players. If your diagnostic of dying tables is as good as you seem to think it is, you will be able to destroy the original table after a few days (no need to think about your actions there) and you don't waste one week waiting to do that.

I've tried that, I don't enjoy it. I should be allowed to play games in the way I prefer and join tables that match my preferences. Just as other people can play in the way they prefer and should be joining tables with appropriate turn times for themselves. When I create or join a table I am saying "I want to play this game at this speed." Someone who is unable or unwilling to play that game or at that speed should not be playing at that table. I don't understand why some people find that so controversial.

I don't think that anyone here "feels the need to slow down games" (there might be some rare exceptions).
Most of the lame players will have more or less good reasons of being late, some of them even valid in your eyes.

I am not upset by an opponent being slow for the occasional turn, but if it happens the first turn of the game that is definitely not a good sign. If an opponent takes up twice their turn time on the first turn but then proceeds to play at a reasonable pace then I will assume something must have come up and not be bothered by it.

My frustration comes from players where taking their turn within the turn time of the table is the exception. If it is a 1 turn / day table and the majority of their turns are taking longer than 24 hours that isn't something unexpected just happening to come up every single day. That is someone indifferent to the rules of the table they joined and should be paying attention to table speeds and picking one with longer turn times.

Yes, sometimes things come up, and that's what the time bank is for. Once you have exceeded the time bank and are in the red you have used up your "something has come up" grace period and the other players should be free to leave the table to join one that is playing at the pace they want to play at.

You are free to join any other table (but you don't want to). And you have the right to destroy tables where someone is too late. But i think it creates a bad ambiance on BGA, at least for all the others on your table. Do you feel satisfied once you've closed such a table (which seems to happen quite often to you) ? Which proportion of your tables is actually going until their natural end ?

And some table settings are just stupid : For instance 4 moves/day, leaving just 6 hours/turn. I guess that the overwhelming majority of players here spend more than 6 hours away from the site during their sleep.
So, with some bad luck, the player before you makes his turn just after you left and you will lose some hours. With more bad luck this arrives regularly and it is never your turn while you're on the site, so eventually you will get into the red and someone might kick you. This might even be true for all players on this table.
So -- why are these tables proposed and joined ? Because it usually works out fine, even if every now and then someone will exceed his time (and obviously without feeling the need to slow down that table).

I'm sure the majority of 4 moves/day tables do not have players dipping into the red. I don't join those tables because I'm not sure if I could meet the time commitment.

I don't know if one can see any statistics like that on BGA. But do you agree that this might happen, even to all of the players, even if nobody is careless ?
The same problem might apply to the games you are describing : Someone has bad luck with the time zones and his turn starts frequently when he is away for hours (sleep/work/...).

One more question : Did you ever ask the "lame" player why he takes so long ?

[Cile]

You are free to join any other table (but you don't want to). And you have the right to destroy tables where someone is too late. But i think it creates a bad ambiance on BGA, at least for all the others on your table.

I think it creates a bad experience on BGA when players join a table and rarely if never take their turn within the time set by the table. I think it creates a bad ambiance on BGA when players state upfront (with the table information) that "I want to play a this speed" and then people try to shame them for wanting to leave the table when a player joins that is unwilling or unable to play at that speed.

Do you feel satisfied once you've closed such a table (which seems to happen quite often to you) ? Which proportion of your tables is actually going until their natural end ?

I feel annoyed and frustrated that I have been unable to play the game I've been wanting to play. I am glad to finally be able to leave the table and try again. All my games in which players play within the time limits of the table have reached their natural end.

I've come back recently and I guess around 20% have ended by me ejecting someone for running out of time. I've had terrible luck with Beyond the Sun, I guess people seem to think because it's a premium game it's okay to ignore the turn time when joining the table? Meanwhile I am frustrated that I became a premium member in order to play this game and kept getting stuck with people who weren't following the rules set by the table when it was created. So those players got ejected, red thumbed, and will have a harder time joining a table in the future because one of the players that can create a table is actively avoiding them. Once I started playing Arena games this problem disappeared for that game.

I haven't encountered this problem with It's a Wonderful World or Wizards of the Grimoire, the later of which I can join a 1turn / day table and complete the entire game in 1 evening. I am encountering this problem with Steam Works. It all depends where on the site you are playing.

I don't know if one can see any statistics like that on BGA. But do you agree that this might happen, even to all of the players, even if nobody is careless ?
The same problem might apply to the games you are describing : Someone has bad luck with the time zones and his turn starts frequently when he is away for hours (sleep/work/...).

I am not going to play a speculation game for a game mode I don't play for the exact behaviour I am talking about: I am not sure if I can meet the time commitment so I don't join those tables. I find it absurd to think there are often games where every player is in the red, 4 turn /day games have a relatively longer time bank (24 hours) to account for sleeping time and the like.
Could it happen? I don't care. Whether a theoretical game could exist where every player is in the red and happily playing is irrelevant to the fact that I have a created a table with 24 hour turn times, (plenty of time to account for sleep, work, timezones, etc, between turns) and I expect people who join the table to play at that speed. That is ample time to fit your turn into your day, and if something drastic has come up you have an additional 48 hour time bank, which is more than enough. If you need more than 3 days to resolve what is happening then you don't have time to be playing this game right now and I'm going to leave the table to play with someone else.

All I'm asking for here is someone to have 1 time a day they log in and take their turn. If that is too big of an ask then they shouldn't be joining 1turn/day tables.

[nik592]

I don't know if one can see any statistics like that on BGA. But do you agree that this might happen, even to all of the players, even if nobody is careless ?
The same problem might apply to the games you are describing : Someone has bad luck with the time zones and his turn starts frequently when he is away for hours (sleep/work/...).

I play almost exclusively 4 turn/day games. Players going into the red probably happens at about the same rate as for any other tables - often, no one does. Occasionally, one, very occasionally, two people at the table go into red. Some of them disappear for days (and I boot them). Others are just a bit slow with their turns (and generally, I don't boot them). Never have I seen a whole table of players in the red. I personally almost never end up in the red, and yes, I do sleep for more than 6 hours at a time (and work, though I often play on my breaks during work time as well). And I know for a fact that timezones can be an issue for me because I'm in Australia and my timezone is at odds with people in the US/EU, which seems to be a majority of players. On tournament tables where there is no time bank, it becomes a problem regularly.

That said, I too find it annoying if someone joins a table and can't stick to the stated speed (even if I don't boot them straight away). And I get where Cile is coming from, as I commented in a similar thread, if you're playing 1 turn/day games, then an extra 50% on the time is a 12 hour wait, but if you're doing 4 turns/day, an extra 50% is only 3 hours. The latter is obviously quite a bit less frustrating and obviously more worth the wait, especially on games where it takes days to get a table started, which is a big part of the reason I will forgive someone running over time so long as they are playing regularly. But even if all three players take an extra 3 hours, that's just over a day between turns for a 4 turns/day table, vs up to 5 days on a 1 turn/day table. So it's a very different value proposition and I understand the frustration.

[Jellby]

That is ample time to fit your turn into your day, and if something drastic has come up you have an additional 48 hour time bank, which is more than enough. If you need more than 3 days to resolve what is happening then you don't have time to be playing this game right now and I'm going to leave the table to play with someone else.

And if the time bank is not enough, you have time jokers, that add a full 4 days to your time (and inform other players that your turns may take longer for a while).

[Fuchur]

You are free to join any other table (but you don't want to). And you have the right to destroy tables where someone is too late. But i think it creates a bad ambiance on BGA, at least for all the others on your table.

I think it creates a bad experience on BGA when players join a table and rarely if never take their turn within the time set by the table. I think it creates a bad ambiance on BGA when players state upfront (with the table information) that "I want to play a this speed" and then people try to shame them for wanting to leave the table when a player joins that is unwilling or unable to play at that speed.

Do you feel satisfied once you've closed such a table (which seems to happen quite often to you) ? Which proportion of your tables is actually going until their natural end ?

I feel annoyed and frustrated that I have been unable to play the game I've been wanting to play. I am glad to finally be able to leave the table and try again. All my games in which players play within the time limits of the table have reached their natural end.

I've come back recently and I guess around 20% have ended by me ejecting someone for running out of time. I've had terrible luck with Beyond the Sun, I guess people seem to think because it's a premium game it's okay to ignore the turn time when joining the table? Meanwhile I am frustrated that I became a premium member in order to play this game and kept getting stuck with people who weren't following the rules set by the table when it was created. So those players got ejected, red thumbed, and will have a harder time joining a table in the future because one of the players that can create a table is actively avoiding them. Once I started playing Arena games this problem disappeared for that game.

I haven't encountered this problem with It's a Wonderful World or Wizards of the Grimoire, the later of which I can join a 1turn / day table and complete the entire game in 1 evening. I am encountering this problem with Steam Works. It all depends where on the site you are playing.

I don't know if one can see any statistics like that on BGA. But do you agree that this might happen, even to all of the players, even if nobody is careless ?
The same problem might apply to the games you are describing : Someone has bad luck with the time zones and his turn starts frequently when he is away for hours (sleep/work/...).

I am not going to play a speculation game for a game mode I don't play for the exact behaviour I am talking about: I am not sure if I can meet the time commitment so I don't join those tables. I find it absurd to think there are often games where every player is in the red, 4 turn /day games have a relatively longer time bank (24 hours) to account for sleeping time and the like.
Could it happen? I don't care. Whether a theoretical game could exist where every player is in the red and happily playing is irrelevant to the fact that I have a created a table with 24 hour turn times, (plenty of time to account for sleep, work, timezones, etc, between turns) and I expect people who join the table to play at that speed. That is ample time to fit your turn into your day, and if something drastic has come up you have an additional 48 hour time bank, which is more than enough. If you need more than 3 days to resolve what is happening then you don't have time to be playing this game right now and I'm going to leave the table to play with someone else.

All I'm asking for here is someone to have 1 time a day they log in and take their turn. If that is too big of an ask then they shouldn't be joining 1turn/day tables.

You didn't answer my question : Do you ever ask the "lames" players why they don't keep up with the speed you've indicated while creating the table ?
I have tried to give some possibly reasons : You are able to finish a whole game in one evening. So you might join tables with 3, 4 or more moves a day without encountering nearly never a problem. As i have pointed out you might get into trouble sometimes but most times it will work out fine. As you are risk aware you don't do it. Others might take the risk and fail sometimes (perhaps these are the 20 % you're encountering).

I've also tried to give you some possible solutions, but none was suitable for you.
So one last proposition :
If one of your tables is again spoiled by a "lame" player, why don't you propose to quit the game (it seems to me that everybody can make this proposition), arguing that you are not willing to wait more than the indicated time and if someone is going into the red you will end the game anyway.
If the "lame" player joined by mistake and can't play faster than he will probably agree to end the game, saving you several days of waiting (and himself a severe hit in his reputation). Otherwise he might make an effort to join BGA more often.

And the other players at your table can anticipate that they shouldn't engage to much in this game.

You might even prepare it little text somewhere which you only copy and paste into the chat, while proposing the end.

[SonicJuz]

Hi just giving a few thoughts as to why some people won't always be able to play within the time they configured (I might be guilty of it, so I never play Arena nor Tournaments): the 4 days token is fin if you can know in advance you won't be able to meet the dealine (in these cases, I personally prefer not to join). If you play on your mobile phone, you have your display at will, and are limited by your rememberance to connect only. If you don't you have to be able to be within the 24hours somewhere close to your device. For people that have small kids or travel for work (where they won't always be able to connect because the hostel presumably had wifi but in fact hasn't), or are in countries where connections are less stable, it's never that simple. For instance female players, that are not as many on BGA, tend to favour short games from what I've seen (I long for real stats here), and that may have to do with the fact they are as women more prone to be subject to menial but time consuming tasks, that contrary to the game, can't be delayed: you planed to game a bit but whoops, the kid ruined their shirt and you have to postpone all your plans (gaming and other) to get a new one before the next day, or the cat got fleas and you have to treat an infestation, or you have to find a doctor and there isn't one within the 100 km around, whatever, you'll find thousands fo reasons why people are late to games, from good ones to bad ones, but mostly, if you have responsibilities of any kind you can't avoid (like most women do), it will not just happen once and will be a reason why you are in fact, not able to play live or IRL. So while I'm not advocating to change any behavior you might have regarding kicking anyone, just please think that, within the site possibilities, it's not a personal insult that some people are overtime, and they don't think their time is worth more that yours. They may just not be able to afford regularity.