The algorithm is absolutely ridiculous. Game is not playable in current state. I’ve played some terrible backgammon apps but nothing as ridiculously bad as this. The opponent didn’t even know how to play. Had 5 to 6 open at all times. And won. Brutal. And unplayable
Game is Unplayable
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Re: Game is Unplayable
Lol.azulmofo wrote: ↑14 November 2023, 18:03 The algorithm is absolutely ridiculous. Game is not playable in current state. I’ve played some terrible backgammon apps but nothing as ridiculously bad as this. The opponent didn’t even know how to play. Had 5 to 6 open at all times. And won. Brutal. And unplayable
Your 3 games of backgammon on here definitely make you more of an expert than the many, many thousands of games and numerous statistical analyses that many of us (mathematics, statisticians, scientists, computer programmers, psychologists, expert backgammon players, etc.) have done over the years.
It's one thing to come on here asking questions, but to come on here after 3 games and declare that you've found a problem is pretty disrespectful. And you didn't even take 30 seconds to look at other forum posts where this has been discussed in detail along with supporting tests and probability discussions.
Feel free to delete or edit your post and apologize when time allows.
Re: Game is Unplayable
You are obviously talking about game #439366395.azulmofo wrote: ↑14 November 2023, 18:03 The algorithm is absolutely ridiculous. Game is not playable in current state. I’ve played some terrible backgammon apps but nothing as ridiculously bad as this. The opponent didn’t even know how to play. Had 5 to 6 open at all times. And won. Brutal. And unplayable
Yes, your opponent played very unorthodox and surely not the best moves. He forced himself into a backgame from the first move on, by offering you lots of checkers to hit. What you do not seem to know is the fact that this tactic has quite high winning chances. I would not be surprised if you *never* exceeded 70% winning chances - not in a *single* moment of the whole game. Your opponent ended in a very promising endgame with 3 points (1+3+5) made in your homeboard and a good timing when you had to leave shots. I will further analyze, but my feeling is that he had 50% winning chance late in the game, even being 100+ pips behind in the race.
Why was your opponents tactic wrong nevertheless, even if it is often successful?
*) If your opponent loses the backgame he will lose it with gammon most of the time. This argument is not valid on BGA, though, since we play 1-point matches here and there are no gammons.
*) It is very difficult to ensure a good timing in a backgame. I.e., one needs a strong homeboard oneself at exactly the moment when the race-leading player tries to bring his last checker home (and is forced to leave double or triple shots).
Perhaps the opponent of azulmofo likes to play backgames or perhaps he (incorrectly) believes that his strategy is superior. You never know... But letting your opponent hit a lot of checkers and setting up a decent backgame makes an interesting game with very difficult and complex gameplay, for sure!
It is not easy to find the correct moves against such players and I would not be surprised if XG will rate the moves of this game as quite badly played by both players. I will continue with another post as soon as I have analyzed it with XG...
Re: Game is Unplayable
After my initial thoughts, I have analyzed the game with XG. Many of my assumptions were correct.
*) Both players played suboptimal. XG calls the PR of azulmofo (25,37) "Beginner" and the PR of his opponent (35,80) "Distracted" - which is worse than "Beginner". Note that all backgames are very difficult to play - even top players have bad PR's (Performance Ratings) when playing a back game. There is no shaming involved here - a bad PR is to be expected, only computers play these positions near perfectly.
*) azulmofo was never better than 63% win rate. Most of the time he was even underdog.
I want to demonstrate this with a screenshot that shows a very significant moment in the game.
https://imgur.com/CyqWySD
White (=azulmodos opponent) did roll a 3-1 and he played Bar/22, 6/5 and thus could block azulmodos 3-point, additionally to the 1-point and 5-point which he had secured earlier. A game situation where you have made 2 or more points in your opponents board is called a backgame. The timing is ideal for white since he has a strong board himself (1-,4-,6-points made) and has additional checkers on 9 and 13 such that he does not have to leave his defensive position in the next roll.
White is 53%-favorite to win the position of the screenshot! Even being 97 pips down (brown only needs 87 pips to end the game, white needs 184 pips), white is a favorite! I am quite sure that azulmofo misjudged the situation and thought he would easily win the game from this position - but he was the underdog.
The reason why white is the favorite: Black has lots of forced moves and will almost with guarantee leave shots sooner or later. And then white has not only one number to hit the checker but he will get at least a double shot.
*) Both players played suboptimal. XG calls the PR of azulmofo (25,37) "Beginner" and the PR of his opponent (35,80) "Distracted" - which is worse than "Beginner". Note that all backgames are very difficult to play - even top players have bad PR's (Performance Ratings) when playing a back game. There is no shaming involved here - a bad PR is to be expected, only computers play these positions near perfectly.
*) azulmofo was never better than 63% win rate. Most of the time he was even underdog.
I want to demonstrate this with a screenshot that shows a very significant moment in the game.
https://imgur.com/CyqWySD
White (=azulmodos opponent) did roll a 3-1 and he played Bar/22, 6/5 and thus could block azulmodos 3-point, additionally to the 1-point and 5-point which he had secured earlier. A game situation where you have made 2 or more points in your opponents board is called a backgame. The timing is ideal for white since he has a strong board himself (1-,4-,6-points made) and has additional checkers on 9 and 13 such that he does not have to leave his defensive position in the next roll.
White is 53%-favorite to win the position of the screenshot! Even being 97 pips down (brown only needs 87 pips to end the game, white needs 184 pips), white is a favorite! I am quite sure that azulmofo misjudged the situation and thought he would easily win the game from this position - but he was the underdog.
The reason why white is the favorite: Black has lots of forced moves and will almost with guarantee leave shots sooner or later. And then white has not only one number to hit the checker but he will get at least a double shot.