My suggestions for improving the game

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ufm
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Joined: 06 January 2017, 08:38

Re: My suggestions for improving the game

Post by ufm »

dgjxqz wrote: 21 February 2023, 03:43 I think the difficulty is OK but ELO calculation disfavors low player count and you're stuck as apprentice for a while. Not sure how some games achieve 20-50 points though.
What's missing is an end turn confirmation with option to startover so that automatic mode can be more helpful.
https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=81674
anima_aqua wrote: 22 February 2023, 22:10 The interesting thing in the game itself I think is that they mention your final score is where you got to on the board minus ten points if you got decapitated. Then you should be trying to better that score on the next time you play. Therefore I think the game is actually fine, it’s more the concept of „win“ / „lose“ on bga that should perhaps be rethought?
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/297527 ... 6#41662706
https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=75844
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dgjxqz
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Joined: 07 February 2021, 22:45

Re: My suggestions for improving the game

Post by dgjxqz »

My reason for startover is not about avoiding mistakes but to see "what if I do this". Right now, you can't see the consequences of placing your clues on the notepad until you click on the whim you want to guess. But it is too late once you click on it, if the notepad shows that the whim isn't guessable you can't change to guess another whim. If would be more helpful if the notepad can show you matches of your whim while you try out different placements and once placement is finalized you should be able to check matches on each of your teammates' whims before decide on which one of them to be guessed.
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sprockitz
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Re: My suggestions for improving the game

Post by sprockitz »

master114 wrote: 22 February 2023, 11:10
sprockitz wrote: 21 February 2023, 03:30 A little inference can help, in fact that is a large part of the game. another big part is setting things up for later...setting up so that you will have several different numbers on a given spot...like 3, 2, and 1. also playing slow intentionally is usually to your advantage if you are just trying to avoid being caught (going for high score seems to be the intended purpose, but just trying to win at first seems reasonable). So in 3-5 player this means often only guessing 1 card even when you know 2 so that you don't have to use a guess in a later turn. it also means moving slower so that the queen in turn also moves slower. In 2 player you can take advantage of those free skips before getting to 10 as it is an extra turn (or 3) as you setup the board.
I don't think this kind of card-guessing tactic in the later phase of the game can drastically change the results of the game.
If your goal is to just avoid getting caught you likely only need to answer 1 each turn. It's wrong guesses or speeding the queen up too early that will kill you in this game.

For 2p here is some very brief thoughts on how to win:

1st player to go should always take an easy card, other player should take medium...and you should keep this trend up. You should almost always be able to guess 1 card each turn, and in the rare case you can't you have 3 skips. By intentionally playing slow early you keep the queen only moving 1 spot at a time. you can win the game only getting to the low-mid 20s.

-With the easy clues you are usually able to give a clue that gives the answer to your card away without question, but on those rare occasions where you can't the mere fact that you don't give an outright solution can usually give an inferred solution.
-If a negative clue is given (i.e. a 0) think about why...it is likely safe to assume that if your partner could give a clue that gave the answer away definitively they would. (so take for example a first turn with a 0 clue, where the board had 3 of the 4 colors available (say red is missing) to chose from for your new plant, in this case a clue of 0 on an easy card would tell you they must be red/red.
-A 50/50 guess isn't always a 50/50 guess. Often later in the game you'll have to give a clue that has 2 possible answers, but it may only have 1 realistic option which you can surmise by looking at the board and the options the player had for laying which will often tell you choice A had a 100% in another spot, so it can't be choice A because my partner would have played the sure thing, therefore it must be choice B.
-Be aware of how you setup the board...the inner ring will be valuable later in the game when you make it possible for clues of different values. Getting 5 different things that all give a value of 1 is pretty worthless but getting a 3 a 2 and a 1 offers much more information when that spot is used. This can be done in early game first ensuring possibilities for 2s in spaces, then moving to possibilities for 2s and 3s.
-In 2p taking a skip when you get to 8-9 can be strategic even if you don't need it...in preparation for this the player taking medium can usually grab a hard card here (and again before hitting 20), the hard cards will likely take 2 rounds of clues but the extra points and the delay in having the queen move faster are worth the tradeoff.
master114
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Joined: 19 December 2019, 17:40

Re: My suggestions for improving the game

Post by master114 »

As I already wrote, I followed most of these tips. And such subtleties for the likely achievement of victory are too difficult for the usual level of difficulty. One wrong move or failure with the received tiles or cards in your hand and you lose.
So I put this game aside for now. Maybe it's not my game.
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Mariellaaaa
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Joined: 16 April 2020, 14:06

Re: My suggestions for improving the game

Post by Mariellaaaa »

When I started playing I played a lot of games before I managed to win. I insisted because I like this game and now I'm over 1000. I advise not to use Automatic Score with which you win little.
Ginasmoon
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Joined: 12 December 2020, 07:46

Re: My suggestions for improving the game

Post by Ginasmoon »

I think an additional improvement would be the ability for each player to change out all of the tyles of the greenhouse. There have been multiple times were my group was turns away from winning and nothing in the greenhouse will help anyone at the table.
- Gina
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Wreckage
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Joined: 18 January 2017, 02:10

Re: My suggestions for improving the game

Post by Wreckage »

anima_aqua wrote: 22 February 2023, 22:10 The interesting thing in the game itself I think is that they mention your final score is where you got to on the board minus ten points if you got decapitated. Then you should be trying to better that score on the next time you play. Therefore I think the game is actually fine, it’s more the concept of „win“ / „lose“ on bga that should perhaps be rethought?
I agree with this, I wish they would go back to -10 points if you get caught by the queen. Trying for the "best" score is much more interesting.
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At the start with a normal setup, there are 8 spaces that allow you to "guess" any medium card with nearly 100% accuracy. Because if your card is spades, there is 1 specific place that indicates spades the best, likewise on each other shape and color. So this should eliminate much of the deduction on the early turns. If you could deduce each guess %100, the game would not be fun at all. But if you look past all the deductive info you have, and then reason through each shape and color, is this the "best" place to place a tile for this shape, is it the "best" place to indicate this color...is this the "best" tile to choose in the greenhouse, you can get most of your guesses correct.
patcon
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Joined: 12 June 2014, 03:42

Re: My suggestions for improving the game

Post by patcon »

master114 wrote: 15 February 2023, 08:15 The third and most important suggestion. This is an opportunity to pass after laying out a tile. Currently, any player who places a tile on the board MUST choose another player's card to guess.
I believe you are misapplying the rule.
After each placement of a tile, the GROUP must make a guess (at least 1) of ANY player's whim card.
It is NOT that the active player places a tile and must guess another player's whim card.
Especially early in the game players will place tiles focusing on their whim card since typically they have limited knowledge of what others have. Example: In the first placement I will give you as much information about my whim card as I can and any info gathered about other players is simply a bonus. We usually try to start with the player having an easy whim for 2 reasons. (1) You should be able to provide a perfect clue with that 1st tile. (2) We won't advance much, giving more turns before reaching the rabbit.
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