Anyone can tell me what is layered or give me an example

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Ultraxseven
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Joined: 04 February 2024, 09:09

Anyone can tell me what is layered or give me an example

Post by Ultraxseven »

CAN tell me how to use layered? thx all!
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Jellby
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Joined: 31 December 2013, 12:22

Re: Anyone can tell me what is layered or give me an example

Post by Jellby »

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Blacktango
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Joined: 18 April 2015, 12:15

Re: Anyone can tell me what is layered or give me an example

Post by Blacktango »

Note that this "Hanabi Tips' wiki page" exists in some other languages (ex: French), but may not contains the layered part.
To find what Jelby is referring to, you need to go to the English version.
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Blacktango
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Re: Anyone can tell me what is layered or give me an example

Post by Blacktango »

There are several types of layered, but the main point is always the same: you get played one or more "extra" cards, that are not part of the original finesse (or other clue).

You already know the most basic form of layered, even if no one calls it like this :)

I'd call it half-bluff, or prompt + finesse:

https://hanabi.devnotebook.fr/display/? ... %2CGX%2CBX

I’m Alice, Bob plays after me, then Carole and then David.

- Bob has a B1 marked 1 in his hand, and a G1 in finesse position (both playable).
- I give Carole a G clue on her G2.
- Bob plays his marked 1.
- Carole doesn't bomb because she noticed a G1 was in finesse position when she got clued. She does something unrelated to the clue, and so do I.
- Bob plays the G1 that has moved in his hand.
- Carole can play her G2.

This is the simplest version of layered: an extra B1 has been played.
Note that Bob could have R1 + G1 in finesse position. Then he would have played until he found the G1, to complete the finesse.


The second easy layered is the layered GD.

https://hanabi.devnotebook.fr/display/? ... ed=R2%2CG1

- I know that my R3 is playable, and I see Bob has a playable G2 and a R3 in finesse position.
- I discard my R3 as a gentleman's discard.
- Bob blind plays, expecting a R3, but he plays a G2.
- On the next turn, Bob will continue to blind play until he finds the R3. Note he could play more than one extra card in this way.

Then, comes the more complex stuff.
It requires being very aware of how do the bluffs work, why they should or shouldn't trigger a play, and why a bluff is not valid.
Last edited by Blacktango on 04 February 2024, 14:13, edited 4 times in total.
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Blacktango
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Re: Anyone can tell me what is layered or give me an example

Post by Blacktango »

Here is what we commonly call a layered finesse:

https://hanabi.devnotebook.fr/display/? ... ed=R2%2CY1

I'm Alice, Bob plays after me, then Carole and then David.

- Carole has two playable cards in finesse position: R3 + Y2
- I clue Y the David's Y3
- Bob discards
- Carole tries to answer the Y finesse but actually play a R3
- David doesn't bomb nor play his marked Y card.
- At the next turn, Carole will continue to blind play until she finds the missing Y2

The important thing to note is that my clue can't be a bluff for R3 because Bob would have answered it.
If it's not a bluff and there's no bomb, then the clue still needs more answers, and like always, when you don't see the missing card, you have to play it from your finesse/prompt position.

You can reverse this kind of layered :
https://hanabi.devnotebook.fr/display/? ... ed=R2%2CY1


Here is the commonly called "clandestine" layered:

https://hanabi.devnotebook.fr/display/? ... %2CY1%2CBX

- Bob has two playable 2 in finesse position: R2 + Y2
- I clue 3 on Carole's Y3
- Bob tries to answer the Y finesse but plays a R2
- Carole doesn't bomb or play her 3
- On the next turn, Bob will continue to play until he finds the matching 2

The important thing to note here is that the clue should have bombed, but didn't, then the clue still needs more answers.

There are also some rare and more complex layereds: patched layered finesse and patched gentleman discard.
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