Comments on the beta implementation

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Mathew5000
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Joined: 02 January 2021, 01:41

Comments on the beta implementation

Post by Mathew5000 »

Chips in the implementation have denominations 1, 2, 5, 10, 20, which seems very weird. Typically poker (and casino games in general) use chips with values 1, 5, 25, and 100. Chips worth 2 units and 20 units are very rare in North America (I don't know about Europe and Asia).

The terminology used in the game log is incorrect. For example the game log says "[playername] calls by betting 5" but in poker a "bet" is distinct from a "call". It ought to say, "[playername] calls 5". That would be correct poker terminology.
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Yharnam folk
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Joined: 22 September 2017, 06:11

Re: Comments on the beta implementation

Post by Yharnam folk »

I think chip value is not a big problem for me, because in online games they are just numbers, I prefer input the value when I bet so I don't care. Maybe the buy in is only 100 so they use these chips.

I agree with the "call" and "bet" text issue.

I'd like to say the game log doesn't show players' hands after thet showed down in the river, it only shows the results. Please show players hand cards in game log when they showed down.
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vigorousRoll
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Joined: 17 February 2018, 09:46

Re: Comments on the beta implementation

Post by vigorousRoll »

+1 on showing the players' hole cards at showdown. I've just joined two games after hearing Holdem was available, but I don't think I'll be joining any more until I see that this crucial piece of information (that one expects to see as routine at places like Poker Stars) is included.

Showing giant cards in the game log to the right makes for a lot of awkward down-scrolling. I'd prefer seeing text like Ac Kd or 8h 7s in the game log window so that the hand could be presented more concisely. I also think with a little work that the previous hand could be presented professionally in the game log window like, for instance, the way that the Two-Plus-Two hand histories are shown in the analysis section of their Poker Forums.

Along this line, I'd like to see a button at the top every time I'm brought to a table where it is now my action that reads.... REPLAY THE LAST HAND.
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Mathew5000
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Joined: 02 January 2021, 01:41

Re: Comments on the beta implementation

Post by Mathew5000 »

I've now played a few real-time games of this implementation and am in the middle of one turn=based game.

Yes, I agree with the two previous posts. Obviously the Texas Holdem implementation on BGA will be significantly inferior to online play at a dedicated poker site (just like chess will never be as good at BGA as at a dedicated online chess site). I do get the feeling that the developer took a lot of care to get the rules of Texas Holdem correct, but has not actually played much poker, and in any event was never immersed in the lingo.

For example, on BGA my hand was described as "a flush (Top value: King)" which is not how any poker player would describe it; the correct terminology is "a king-high flush". The word "top" should never be used in hand descriptions. For example a straight can be referred to as "a queen-high straight" (or "a nine-to-queen straight", less commonly) and any hand ranking below one pair should be described as "high card ace" or "ace-high" (or "king-high" or whatever).

It's very weird that the community cards (i.e. flop, turn, and river) would be shown face down on the board. That's not how holdem is ever played; those cards are never face down on the table. I know it doesn't affect the play, and there's an option not to see the backs of those cards, but it just illustrates that the game has been implemented without any knowledge of the practices and culture of the game.

The animation is way too slow. The thing where chips get exchanged at the bank for different denominations, that's totally unnecessary, it just slows down the game. And when I'm at a showdown, it gives me 10 seconds to decide whether to show my cards, that's also an unnecessary delay, it should be 2.5 seconds. In general the showdown takes three times as long as it should.

A fold checkbox is desperately needed. For the player in the big blind it should be "check/fold" meaning "check if nobody raises, fold if somebody does raise". This would speed up the game because most players fold the majority of hands, and they often know they'll fold as soon as they see the cards.

But maybe the biggest criticism I would make at this point is this: if I go to raise and decide not to use one of the amounts on the buttons there already, but instead decide to key in my own choice of what to raise, it gives me a little box saying "Choose Amount" but it doesn't specifically say that this is the amount I'm going to raise by. Usually I think about a hand in terms of what I want to raise to. For example, if the blinds are 4/8 and I'm on the button, I might wish to raise to 24, but if I type in "24" that's interpreted as a raise by 24, so that it actually costs me 32. You can't leave this ambiguous, that's unfair to the players. (Also, after I type in the numerical amount, I should be able to press return, but the return/enter key doesn't work there. I have to move my fingers from the keyboard back to the mouse and then move it to click that tiny "OK" button. Very frustrating!)
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Nactra
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Joined: 10 September 2020, 18:03

Re: Comments on the beta implementation

Post by Nactra »

i'll second the comment on animations - please speed them up from 2x to 4x, they cost too much time on real time games
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SymphonyNo28CoTkin
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Joined: 12 September 2023, 17:29

Re: Comments on the beta implementation

Post by SymphonyNo28CoTkin »

It takes too much time to think about it, about a minute, because of this, the dynamics of the poker game deteriorates. I suggest setting the turn time to ~25-45 seconds so that players can think for themselves, rather than Googling which cards are better to play. Keep it up) 8-)
P.S. I also agree with the previous comments: chips with values 1, 5, 25, and 100 and the animation is way too slow.
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Mathew5000
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Joined: 02 January 2021, 01:41

Re: Comments on the beta implementation

Post by Mathew5000 »

Here's another thing. In this screencap, blinds are 2/4, I posted the small blind, and one player has gone all-in for 222:

Image

It's my turn. Notice I have 192 dollars (ok, "units") remaining. But the action line at the top says, "You must call, raise, or fold". That's wrong; I can't raise since the current bet is more than I have. Also, the first button there says: "Call (+220)". That's wrong too; I cannot call 220 because I only have 192. I have just two options: either call all-in or fold. There's a button visible that says "Confirm raise"; that shouldn't be there. I can't raise. I don't know what would happen if I pressed that. The button marked "All in", well that's redundant, because in this scenario, if I call I will be all-in. So that button is not needed. And the "Make change" button, I'm really not sure what the point of that is.

And getting back to the first button marked "Call (+220)". As I said, it should be "Call 192". The plus-sign and the parentheses are unnecessary and confusing.
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SymphonyNo28CoTkin
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Re: Comments on the beta implementation

Post by SymphonyNo28CoTkin »

Also for beginners. I suggest adding two chips similar to the “dealer” chips. Small blind and big blind. Look at any set of poker chips, they are there. Quite big. One and a half times more chips for bets :D
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Vad55
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Joined: 06 June 2016, 12:59

Re: Comments on the beta implementation

Post by Vad55 »

I propose to determine the places of the players, as in other games here, AFTER the end of the game, and not BEFORE. I believe that there is only 1 winner in this game. But there are players who constantly fold or make minimal bets so that someone else loses faster than them. As a result of this tactic, the player expects to take 2nd place, for example out of 5 players. But as a result, he will have the same 0 money/chips as the 1 eliminated person - why should he be awarded points as the 2nd place winner? Everyone who is not in 1st place is a loser, this is true in life.
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ErikLevin
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Joined: 06 January 2024, 14:13

Re: Comments on the beta implementation

Post by ErikLevin »

Vad55 wrote: 18 February 2024, 18:45 I propose to determine the places of the players, as in other games here, AFTER the end of the game, and not BEFORE. I believe that there is only 1 winner in this game. But there are players who constantly fold or make minimal bets so that someone else loses faster than them. As a result of this tactic, the player expects to take 2nd place, for example out of 5 players. But as a result, he will have the same 0 money/chips as the 1 eliminated person - why should he be awarded points as the 2nd place winner? Everyone who is not in 1st place is a loser, this is true in life.
In Poker sit 'n' go (= one-table elimination contests, in Poker lingo) and tournaments, you win more money if you survive longer, even if you do not place first of all. In 5 player sit 'n' go, the 1st and 2nd spot may pay out, for example. Playing tight, conserving chips, and avoiding to go out on a reckless bet early on is absolutely a good tactic in tournament Poker.
So in my opinion, it is correct that BGA implements standings based on order of elimination, as is.
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