Take away Birthday card

Forum rules
Please DO NOT POST BUGS on this forum. Please report (and vote) bugs on : https://boardgamearena.com/bugs
User avatar
DField82
Posts: 7
Joined: 20 April 2023, 16:02

Re: Take away Birthday card

Post by DField82 »

StevenW686 wrote: 18 January 2024, 15:44 It honestly does not seem that is the case. Even at the higher echelons I have never seen people choose three, only two at most.
Play more.
User avatar
Zozoken
Posts: 55
Joined: 14 September 2016, 19:42

Re: Take away Birthday card

Post by Zozoken »

Wow, this thread is still going?

How about this work-around:

1. If you are playing a no-stakes game of Fluxx (with friends or in training mode), be honest with the card. Discuss before the game if anyone has any birthdays or if there's any special days, like the official FAQ says to do. In other words, you can't claim it's your birthday unless it really is your birthday.

2. If you are playing a competitive game (such as a tournament), treat the card as if the text says for the player to draw 1, 2, or 3 cards. Ignore the text about birthdays and special days. In other words, it's your birthday today if you want it to be.
User avatar
DField82
Posts: 7
Joined: 20 April 2023, 16:02

Re: Take away Birthday card

Post by DField82 »

Zozoken wrote: 24 January 2024, 17:50 2. If you are playing a competitive game (such as a tournament), treat the card as if the text says for the player to draw 1, 2, or 3 cards. Ignore the text about birthdays and special days. In other words, it's your birthday today if you want it to be.
How about just play the proper rules as they're written on the card? It's not rocket science.
User avatar
Zozoken
Posts: 55
Joined: 14 September 2016, 19:42

Re: Take away Birthday card

Post by Zozoken »

DField82 wrote: 31 January 2024, 06:29 How about just play the proper rules as they're written on the card? It's not rocket science.
Because the proper rules are not enforceable. It's not rocket science.
User avatar
TheDemonPickle
Posts: 3
Joined: 26 January 2023, 09:45

Re: Take away Birthday card

Post by TheDemonPickle »

DField82 wrote: 31 January 2024, 06:29
Zozoken wrote: 24 January 2024, 17:50 2. If you are playing a competitive game (such as a tournament), treat the card as if the text says for the player to draw 1, 2, or 3 cards. Ignore the text about birthdays and special days. In other words, it's your birthday today if you want it to be.
How about just play the proper rules as they're written on the card? It's not rocket science.
And the official rules allow playing at least 2 if you can show you've selected an existing 'holiday', so that at least is fair game.
User avatar
Zozoken
Posts: 55
Joined: 14 September 2016, 19:42

Re: Take away Birthday card

Post by Zozoken »

I thought about how the devs could "fix" the Birthday card without requiring any outside user information.

It would trigger automatically based on the current date:

1. If the current day is the same as the user join date, the player automatically draws 3 cards
2. If the current day is the same as a small database of accepted holidays (maybe 20 different days), the player automatically draws 2 cards
3. If the current day does not match the user join date or a date in the database of holidays, the player automatically draws 1 card

If this is not possible, you could simulate the odds of playing on a special day. 1:365 chance to draw 3, 20:365 chance to draw 2, otherwise draw 1.

Of course, it's unlikely that any changes will be made. In that case, each table will have to decide amongst themselves how to handle the Birthday card. After all, this game was not designed with online play in mind. As for me, I'm not bothered by someone claiming it's a holiday or their birthday. There's no way to verify if they are lying or telling the truth, and even if they are lying, it doesn't change my enjoyment of the game. But for those that consider it a deal-breaker to their fun, those that do not want to be at a table where people will claim it's their birthday when it's not, it's best to talk about the card at the table before playing. Just to make sure everyone's on the same page.
User avatar
Meeplelowda
Posts: 1174
Joined: 14 March 2020, 10:31

Re: Take away Birthday card

Post by Meeplelowda »

Zozoken wrote: 04 February 2024, 23:18 I thought about how the devs could "fix" the Birthday card without requiring any outside user information.

It would trigger automatically based on the current date:

1. If the current day is the same as the user join date, the player automatically draws 3 cards
2. If the current day is the same as a small database of accepted holidays (maybe 20 different days), the player automatically draws 2 cards
3. If the current day does not match the user join date or a date in the database of holidays, the player automatically draws 1 card

If this is not possible, you could simulate the odds of playing on a special day. 1:365 chance to draw 3, 20:365 chance to draw 2, otherwise draw 1.

Of course, it's unlikely that any changes will be made. In that case, each table will have to decide amongst themselves how to handle the Birthday card. After all, this game was not designed with online play in mind. As for me, I'm not bothered by someone claiming it's a holiday or their birthday. There's no way to verify if they are lying or telling the truth, and even if they are lying, it doesn't change my enjoyment of the game. But for those that consider it a deal-breaker to their fun, those that do not want to be at a table where people will claim it's their birthday when it's not, it's best to talk about the card at the table before playing. Just to make sure everyone's on the same page.
I like this a lot. This is something they actually have (your BGA join date). But reaching agreement if people don't speak the same language could be a challenge.

But there's still the issue of the dev not actually being interested in this. The dev wolmot marked the bug report "opponets [sic] lie when playing todays special not a bug but please fix somhow [sic]" as "Not a bug" and responded like this:
Yes, well, as you probably already figured out, not much we can about this.
The birth date from the BGA profile is not accessible in games, and even if it was only a small percentage of players will have it filled in.
We discussed this with the publishers up front, and they said not to take it too seriously and just let players choose an option. Kirsten Looney actually admitted she also makes up holidays in real life ;)
Remember also, it is not always an advantage that they get to play more cards from Today’s Special:
just sit back and wait until one of those cheaters is forced to play a Goal card that makes you win, and have the last laugh. [emphasis added]
and
By the way, apart from the birthday problem: how would you decide if they are lying about a Holiday or special day on this international platform?
Every day is a holiday somewhere in the world for someone
wolmot also rejected the suggestions "Forced selection option for "Today's Special!" (for Arena Mode)" and "Today’s Special! abused, need pop-up window."

In response to the "Forced selections" suggestion, wolmot wrote:
The problem of players that possibly “lie” when using Today’s Special is known and was discussed thoroughly up front when developing, see also in this bug report: boardgamearena.com/bug?id=41115

We won’t be spending time in adding any other solution that would be sub-optimal anyway at best.
Forcing players to make this choice beforehand in every game, when games will finish very often without this card even coming up, is also cumbersome and strange.
And with your suggestion, what to do with turn-based games that go on for days or even weeks?
Maybe it wasn’t their birthday when the game started but it is now?

Fluxx is meant to be a light, quick, fun chaotic game anyway, so taking it too seriously as an Arena competitive game is not really the intention. [emphasis added]
The publisher said "not to take it too seriously" because this is supposed to be "light, quick, fun." In other words, lighten up, Francis.

I predict some people will still say this does not resolve the issue. :roll:
User avatar
DField82
Posts: 7
Joined: 20 April 2023, 16:02

Re: Take away Birthday card

Post by DField82 »

People could literally just read the card and do what it says. There is a well-enough established community by now that if a majority of people just play the damn rules properly, and call out newcomers, the problem will fix itself. Lead by example, be the change you want to see etc.
User avatar
Zozoken
Posts: 55
Joined: 14 September 2016, 19:42

Re: Take away Birthday card

Post by Zozoken »

DField82 wrote: 07 February 2024, 18:10 People could literally just read the card and do what it says. There is a well-enough established community by now that if a majority of people just play the damn rules properly, and call out newcomers, the problem will fix itself. Lead by example, be the change you want to see etc.
What an angry post...

You say the well-enough established community should just read the card and do what it says. That players have an ethical obligation to answer truthfully about their birthday. In a card game that doesn't take itself seriously. Even the FAQ says you can make up holidays if you want. (The irony about ethics here is that DField82 doesn't seem to have any issue with the game requiring people to post personal information online such as their birthday about themselves. I suppose you have to make ethical arguments where you can and ignore the inconvenient ones.)

The community is split on the issue. In fact, it seems the majority of the community plays the card however they want and a minority of the player base gets angry about players lying about their birthday. That's why there's several pages to this thread. Also, "calling out newcomers" isn't exactly welcoming behavior. Making the game less fun for myself and others is not the change I want to see.

My recommendation for you is to play with people that won't lie about their birthday. Or at least, make you believe it's their birthday. It might be my birthday today! There's no way you can know for sure. Or agree before game start to use the BGA join date instead. That's your BGA account birthday and nobody can lie about that.

Cheers!
Post Reply

Return to “Fluxx”