Draft mode is available !

[firgon]

Hello, Forest Shuffle players,

with today we are introducing draft mode for Forest Shuffle. In this variant, you draft the cards of your starting hand. After that, Forest Shuffle is played accordingly to the usual rules.

As with other set up conditions - the way you draft depends on the player count.

Please check out the rules for draft mode in the rules section to learn more :
https://boardgamearena.com/link?url=htt ... f&id=23700

As a dev, this draft mode was quite challenging on the UI, I hope we found a good solution !

Have fun playing!

[redeemedmonkeycma]

I really like it, and the UI is very nice!

I was surprised that it was added into arena mode so late in the season.

[Ricoco]

When the first player is decided, before or after the draft? This is not clear for me?

Knowing before the draft seems to be a huge advantage as you can choose which card to put in the field.

[Rutabaga00]

For the reasons you explained, first player is unknown at the time of the draft.

I must say that after several games, i dont really understand the appeal behind the draft mode.
Its just totally conflicting with the strengths of the game.

By allowing players to pick which cards to keep, you allow them to playing according to their liking, which defeats the purpose of the game.
The goal is to find ways to make your cards work together, even (especially !) when they're not that good, or not a good fit together etc, and doing so while not knowing which cards are there and how much of them are there.

With draft mode, you give intel, and you allow players to interfere the game to follow patterns they like and will follow game after game which will likely make them more similar.

I dont get it, for lower player counts, thats just not interesting.
I can understand for 5 players game, because the number of turns is much lower, but considering how difficult it is to have an Arena with 3 players, that type of game cant be that common.
If someone from Lookout (or anyone else, really) can explain what are the ideas behind the mode, that would be cool. I fail to see how this is an upgrade.

[redeemedmonkeycma]

For the reasons you explained, first player is unknown at the time of the draft.

I must say that after several games, i dont really understand the appeal behind the draft mode.
Its just totally conflicting with the strengths of the game.

By allowing players to pick which cards to keep, you allow them to playing according to their liking, which defeats the purpose of the game.
The goal is to find ways to make your cards work together, even (especially !) when they're not that good, or not a good fit together etc, and doing so while not knowing which cards are there and how much of them are there.

With draft mode, you give intel, and you allow players to interfere the game to follow patterns they like and will follow game after game which will likely make them more similar.

I dont get it, for lower player counts, thats just not interesting.
I can understand for 5 players game, because the number of turns is much lower, but considering how difficult it is to have an Arena with 3 players, that type of game cant be that common.
If someone from Lookout (or anyone else, really) can explain what are the ideas behind the mode, that would be cool. I fail to see how this is an upgrade.

What you refer to as the greatest strength of the game is, in my opinion, its greatest flaw. If it were the case that both players faced the same struggles, you might have a point. However, there have been so many games where I struggle to find any of the big point scoring cards, while my opponent racks up 4 wolves and 5 deer (or I am the beneficiary of the luck). Indeed, I have lost to a 1300-level arena player, while I was playing as best as I could with the cards dealt. For a game that appears on its face to be a skill-based game, it is frustrating to lose based on pure chance.

The draft mitigates this in a minor way, by allowing you to see 18 cards to formulate your initial strategy, and indeed to have a little information about which strategies will see reductions in potential points scored. The draft makes the game a little more skill oriented, and a little bit less luck.

[Rutabaga00]

Well, these games decided by the draw are bound to happen anyway, especially 1vs1. Its just that you change the timing of the luck, if i can say so.

The problem is not whether draft mode is useful or not, the problem is that this game is not fitted for 1vs1 because of massive points swing decided by pure luck.

You say that you can use the fact that you have a view of 10% of the pack to plan a strategy, its possible, but IRL, i dont think its really the case.
Because you dont get to see enough of the pack to really alter it in a serious way, and lets be honest, if you do, how is that different in terms of luck than someone getting 6 deers and 3 wolves, after all ?

Planning a strategy, in 1vs1 ? We all know which road leads to success, and you cant make plans long-term by burying good cards and doing all-in on butterflies or rabbits.
You dont know whats going to happen 5 mins later, so odds are you'll keep the best cards and then i dont see how this change the dynamics of the game. Instead of being decided by the luck of the draw in game, now it can be also decided by the luck of the draw in the draft ?

Even if you are given, at the start, the opportunity to discard all red deers, for instance, would you do it ? Its difficult to bet against logic, so you wont.


Strategy planning could be a proper argument for games with 4 or 5 players, i'd give you this, because the timing is much shorter, but even then, considering your hand will be filled by a majority of dropped cards by opponents, i dont find that very fun, to be honest.