I really hope bannings do some math

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PurePearl
Posts: 12
Joined: 29 July 2022, 08:54

I really hope bannings do some math

Post by PurePearl »

and play their own game
simple as breakfast, just you two, test the win rate of first attacker dealing with growth first picker.
I can say it's higher than ******* 80%.
Oh no, im not saying first picker is imba. it also happens when the first new spell is growth.
brilliant spell with almost all combo and no counter, really brilliant
iwinuloseok
Posts: 9
Joined: 04 October 2023, 21:38

Re: I really hope bannings do some math

Post by iwinuloseok »

Are you restarted?
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CBanning
Posts: 6
Joined: 07 July 2023, 01:10

Re: I really hope bannings do some math

Post by CBanning »

While I don't disagree that Growth is very strong and has probably the highest combo potential, I'm not convinced that's it's as overpowered as you think.

It has a couple downsides and counters:
- It costs 3 to get going, which is a lot to pay for a spell that does very little without combos. While not easily noticeable this slows down your early game damage output
- Without combos it does 1 damage per turn, which is below average. It requires combos to even get up to decent damage level. Compared to a spell like Force of Nature which does 2 damage per turn without a combo.
- It is hard-countered by Puppetmaster. Soft countered by Symbiosis. And has negative synergy with spells like Fire Blast, False Face, etc.

I still think it's a top 10 spell, but not broken.

As for actual game stats, I went through my game history and found 22 games where Growth was in the starting 10 spells.

When drafted first, it won 50% of games (won 5, lost 5)
When drafted at all, it won 55% of games (won 11, lost 9)

Details here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0
miodaibuki
Posts: 13
Joined: 01 March 2018, 15:47

Re: I really hope bannings do some math

Post by miodaibuki »

CBanning wrote: 06 May 2024, 19:59 While I don't disagree that Growth is very strong and has probably the highest combo potential, I'm not convinced that's it's as overpowered as you think.

It has a couple downsides and counters:
- It costs 3 to get going, which is a lot to pay for a spell that does very little without combos. While not easily noticeable this slows down your early game damage output
- Without combos it does 1 damage per turn, which is below average. It requires combos to even get up to decent damage level. Compared to a spell like Force of Nature which does 2 damage per turn without a combo.
- It is hard-countered by Puppetmaster. Soft countered by Symbiosis. And has negative synergy with spells like Fire Blast, False Face, etc.

I still think it's a top 10 spell, but not broken.

As for actual game stats, I went through my game history and found 22 games where Growth was in the starting 10 spells.

When drafted first, it won 50% of games (won 5, lost 5)
When drafted at all, it won 55% of games (won 11, lost 9)

Details here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0
how terrible your maths is
1.The costs is nearly no price at all, almost EVERYONE's early game is slow. do the basic attack 3 times and use the effect like only two times, which is pretty easy, already enough to make it worth. just look at those 3cost 5dmg spells with negative price.
2.without combo? seriously? again, do some counting to see how many combos there are. I'll tell you: TOO MANY. Do you really know this game?
3.Like other spells don't have counters huh? Other spells have counters AND there is no good picking their counter. You tell me what happens when growth comes with puppetmaster

really shocks me the designer honestly thinks growth is not broken
miodaibuki
Posts: 13
Joined: 01 March 2018, 15:47

Re: I really hope bannings do some math

Post by miodaibuki »

Let me put it this way, we are playing a game with 10 starting spells on board:
Growth, Puppetmaster, Reckless Attack, Sleight of Hand, Toxic Gift,
Backfire, Windstorm, Doom Drop, Energy Reserve, Bad Fortune.
Now you are the first picker and I say I will definitely pick the Growth if you don't.
Will you take the "hardcounter" Puppetmaster? Will you?
And also, name me an other spell has so many combo spells that even starting board can't hold them all. Nearly 1/3.
Just use this board to play like 20 games and say you insist.
PoSack
Posts: 2
Joined: 12 November 2023, 08:28

Re: I really hope bannings do some math

Post by PoSack »

I do think growth is a strong pick. But far from the make or break of a game.

Growth has drawbacks. The cost is high. Taking it first pick or even second pick means really your first turn and maybe second will be low damage.

The counters are hard to say as it's completely situational. But usually grabbing any spell that would benefit as a counter is my way to go against it. Do that and what do they really have? A plus 1 to their basic attack for 3 turns. In 3 turns they have a spell slot wasted for 3 damage total essentially.

The most important thing to ask yourself at the start of a turn when picking a spell is, what is my opponent thinking and what would be best for him. Then just take it and adapt to use it to your advantage.

Happy Wizing
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