I really hope bannings do some math

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miodaibuki
Posts: 17
Joined: 01 March 2018, 15:47

Re: I really hope bannings do some math

Post by miodaibuki »

LimitedPower wrote: 21 June 2024, 03:35
miodaibuki wrote: 09 May 2024, 02:19 Let me put it this way, we are playing a game with 10 starting spells on board:
Growth, Puppetmaster, Reckless Attack, Sleight of Hand, Toxic Gift,
Backfire, Windstorm, Doom Drop, Energy Reserve, Bad Fortune.
Now you are the first picker and I say I will definitely pick the Growth if you don't.
Will you take the "hardcounter" Puppetmaster? Will you?
And also, name me an other spell has so many combo spells that even starting board can't hold them all. Nearly 1/3.
Just use this board to play like 20 games and say you insist.
Yeah that board is pretty favored for growth, puppetmaster is the clear opposition pick and then have to hope for some other control spells - wrath and mist of pain can be very effective against Growth because it needs so much mana, but sometimes the board just lines up in a way that you don't have any good picks.

I think Secret Oath was a pretty strong counter to it, but it also made a very strong combo. I said when Secret Oath was removed that Growth would be the next card that would seem to be overpowered
Next time you pretend being polite, remember not to block someone who is way wiser than you.
And I can see it's not the first time you block players who play better than you, very wise elo skill
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miodaibuki
Posts: 17
Joined: 01 March 2018, 15:47

Re: I really hope bannings do some math

Post by miodaibuki »

Ceaseless wrote: 28 May 2024, 15:52
miodaibuki wrote: 09 May 2024, 02:19 Let me put it this way, we are playing a game with 10 starting spells on board:
Growth, Puppetmaster, Reckless Attack, Sleight of Hand, Toxic Gift,
Backfire, Windstorm, Doom Drop, Energy Reserve, Bad Fortune.
Now you are the first picker and I say I will definitely pick the Growth if you don't.
Will you take the "hardcounter" Puppetmaster? Will you?
And also, name me an other spell has so many combo spells that even starting board can't hold them all. Nearly 1/3.
Just use this board to play like 20 games and say you insist.
Why should we care about a hand specifically chosen to set up a scenario? If you rig a hand to try and break a card, of course that's going to make a card look stronger.
yeah right then do some math ok? how many combos can growth perform, how many others can? the ratio? the odds? lower limit of damage?
a qualitative or quantitate way, choose one. try to convince yourself the growth is perfectly balanced
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miodaibuki
Posts: 17
Joined: 01 March 2018, 15:47

Re: I really hope bannings do some math

Post by miodaibuki »

PoSack wrote: 28 May 2024, 00:13 You're right I agree with you 110% now that you said that, your way with words are awe inspiring and I will follow you to the pits of hell and back. Anyways.

Happy Wizmas!
now i feel sorry for you too. Can't even express yourself straightforward online. like you have no one close IRL, scare of losing anyone who would like to talk with you
Ceaseless
Posts: 365
Joined: 12 November 2022, 17:06

Re: I really hope bannings do some math

Post by Ceaseless »

miodaibuki wrote: 05 July 2024, 03:30
Ceaseless wrote: 28 May 2024, 15:52
miodaibuki wrote: 09 May 2024, 02:19 Let me put it this way, we are playing a game with 10 starting spells on board:
Growth, Puppetmaster, Reckless Attack, Sleight of Hand, Toxic Gift,
Backfire, Windstorm, Doom Drop, Energy Reserve, Bad Fortune.
Now you are the first picker and I say I will definitely pick the Growth if you don't.
Will you take the "hardcounter" Puppetmaster? Will you?
And also, name me an other spell has so many combo spells that even starting board can't hold them all. Nearly 1/3.
Just use this board to play like 20 games and say you insist.
Why should we care about a hand specifically chosen to set up a scenario? If you rig a hand to try and break a card, of course that's going to make a card look stronger.
yeah right then do some math ok? how many combos can growth perform, how many others can? the ratio? the odds? lower limit of damage?
a qualitative or quantitate way, choose one. try to convince yourself the growth is perfectly balanced
You're the one insisting Growth is so insane, that sounds like something you should have brought up. The card has a base of 3 damage if we assume a basic attack every turn, which is terrible even ignoring its other downsides. Given it's a combo card, that's to be expected, on its own the card should not be very good. The combo options vary wildly. Trap Attack/Shadow Attack propping it up a point are underwhelming though still valid, while Toxic Gift/Doom Drop are going to really stand out. It can be all over the place.

I'd say you need at least 3 extra points to make the card shine, possibly more to call it broken. As a combo card with the downsides of being a weak standalone card it should be expected to have a better ceiling when paired with other cards than standalone powerhouses. In addition to it needing to combo, the fact it can't do all of its damage at once is also a notable downside, as it can't squeeze out that extra damage on the final turn more immediate cards can to possibly close out the game, which may matter depending on its turn cycles.

The card is good enough to be a must grab in certain games, but enough to say it needs to be banned? I'm not convinced. The card that got banned, Secret Oath, in addition to its insane combos for damage, was also just more frustrating to play against. While permanently limiting the opponent's peak mana options on its own and randomly stealing cards based on what they drew, it also had combos where the deck would be stacked so that the opponent was forced to draw into giveaway manas, which if big enough could even force them to just pass the turn, unable to even play.
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LimitedPower
Posts: 34
Joined: 21 April 2023, 05:44

Re: I really hope bannings do some math

Post by LimitedPower »

miodaibuki wrote: 05 July 2024, 03:24
LimitedPower wrote: 21 June 2024, 03:35
miodaibuki wrote: 09 May 2024, 02:19 Let me put it this way, we are playing a game with 10 starting spells on board:
Growth, Puppetmaster, Reckless Attack, Sleight of Hand, Toxic Gift,
Backfire, Windstorm, Doom Drop, Energy Reserve, Bad Fortune.
Now you are the first picker and I say I will definitely pick the Growth if you don't.
Will you take the "hardcounter" Puppetmaster? Will you?
And also, name me an other spell has so many combo spells that even starting board can't hold them all. Nearly 1/3.
Just use this board to play like 20 games and say you insist.
Yeah that board is pretty favored for growth, puppetmaster is the clear opposition pick and then have to hope for some other control spells - wrath and mist of pain can be very effective against Growth because it needs so much mana, but sometimes the board just lines up in a way that you don't have any good picks.

I think Secret Oath was a pretty strong counter to it, but it also made a very strong combo. I said when Secret Oath was removed that Growth would be the next card that would seem to be overpowered
Next time you pretend being polite, remember not to block someone who is way wiser than you.
And I can see it's not the first time you block players who play better than you, very wise elo skill
Me blocking you had nothing to do with losing to you - I lose to plenty of people. It had to do with your bad attitude. I got that from 1 game with you and your vitriol in the forums shows it was a correct judge of character. I play games on here for enjoyment, not to be harassed. If you want to be a nice person, I will play against you.
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