Best and worst characters?

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Romain672
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Joined: 05 April 2016, 13:53

Best and worst characters?

Post by Romain672 »

Hello,
Since I like to do those, let's do it in burgle bros. There is 18 characters, so it's harder to have a good view on all of them.
That list is only for 2&3 players.

1) Juicer (n): I think a great ability need to be able to save from a dead-end (if you are in a dead end, and guard is coming, you can create an alarm to make the guard change path and be safe). Then it can control the guard path, that let you sometimes make the guard move one more to make it end where you want it to be, and see his next destination and be able to adapt your next turn. And it can be played as support (even if it's not great) by creating alarms in others floors to help others. It's just not that useful at the start of the game, but you can't expect everything. As a bonus, you can infinite the guard, so make the guard to the same thing every turn and be able to do something positive. Like if situation is AXXGXXA with G=guard and A=alarm, and guard is moving 4+2, then it will do the same path every turn without increasing the movement over time.

2) Hawk (a): Being able to peek at a two away tile makes it the best character to peek at new tiles, it can early on be used at a fifth action if you aren't safe to be able to peek at an adjacent tile and adapt in function of it. It doesn't have much other utility, but is extremely good at what it do.
She makes the late part of the game much safer by being faster. After the third safe has been opened, that's where the problems arise.

3) Raven (n): Being able to reduce by one the movement of the guard make the floor 1 be extremely slow which is really good. Going to higher floor, that's still a good competence which delay the moment where the guard will move one more. It can be put in a random place to make the guard move one more to make the guard reach it's destination and be able to see his next direction to adapt. It can be used as support in another floor. Overall, a lot of small ways to make this ability good.
She makes the late part of the game much safer by reducing the guard speed.

4) Rook (n): Being able to move another player to gain 1 or 2/3 actions every turn make it a great support. Leave it at floor 1, and make the other player have 5 actions every turn, or make your whole team be able to pass a difficult deadbolt.

5) Juicer (a): Juicer advanced is a really weird character. It's in two parts but both are good and require different gameplay. The first one (which is the best one to hold) let you pick up an alarm and if it's the only alarm on the floor, make the guard draw a new patrol card, that let you give a second shot if the guard destination didn't pleased you. That can make it much safer to run into unknown tiles since you can pick up the alarm if you trigger one, and can manage differents problems (fingerprint on a dead end in a new floor per example). The second ability let you trigger an alarm in your position on your floor, that's a worst normal juicer but still a pretty good ability with most of the upside of it, I would advise to try to see what you can do with that ability, and if you find nothing great, use it to get your other power online.
You shouldn't play that character as a 'I will take that alarm because it's fun and get ruined by rng', but as an extra solution for most of your situations where you aren't fully safe. Having that option available to pick up an alarm gave you a lot of extra options.
She makes the late part of the game much safer.

6) Hacker (n): Hard to rate it because it's my least favorite character to play after rigger, but many players said it's good. You lose your ability to be able to control the guard, but can be much safer to move around. At the end, when all computer room have some hacks, his competence because much less effecient.

7) Acrobat (n): Again, not a character I play a lot, but moving to the guard tile give you lots of options, and is great in corridors, you can use that ability multiple time per turn which let you sometimes move through it to trigger an alarm and goes back to your starting position.

8) Acrobat (a): Making you able to move through floors gives you a lot of options, and make you able to move through most difficulty of the game at the cost of being extremely slow. Early on, you can move solo upstairs if needed to be able to have differents players on floors faster. Lots of options every turn.

9) Hacker (a): I would myself put it above the normal hacker, it's a character with the upside of normal hacker and being able to trigger an alarm if needed, and downside of being pretty slow.

10) Spotter (n): Seeing the next destination of the guard make it way safer. You can use it as support to see the next destination in another floor. But you can use it as an opener too since it's pretty safe.

11) Spotter (a): Play it at support in floor 1 and cycle events. That will take the whole game to cycle through them, but you will be able to hit some great one: +1 item & +1 stealth. You got some good ones like move upstairs & move a character to your tile. And many of them have some minor or situationnal utility. The gain of 1 stealth, especially in hard mode to your teammate can be extremely good.

12) Peterman (a): Being able to roll and add dices through floors is usually close to useless, but in some cases, that's gamebreaker. In difficult floors, especially at 2 players, you can avoid most or some of the difficulty of it.

13) Hawk (n): Peeking through walls is still a good ability, but compared to advanced hawk, you have less choices in the tiles you can peek. Still not a bad ability, but since it's the only thing this character can do, it look pretty bad.

14) Raven (a): Raven advanced is really interesting but really hard to play, you often need to take a random shot at it, but when that hit, you got a full extra turn. That can be used as suppor in another floor. Looking at the parity of it need to be done because if the guard move 4 each turn, that makes only 8 tiles possible for the guard to end. Triggering alarm in a dead end can make the control of the guard end tile be much clearer.
After each use of raven, immediately use your raven ability maybe you will want it later. At the end of your turn if your guard have no chance to end on your tile, don't use your ability since you can still use it at the start of your next turn. Often try to catch the guard during the end of your next turn.
Better in normal mode since sacrificing one stealth by moving on where the guard is present is a commun option available if you aren't safe since that makes the guard move away from where you are going and gets you an extra turn, instead of taking a chance to lose a stealth and still be stuck in your area.

15) Rigger (n): The extra dynamity could be a downside early on, but that with the choice of others loot can make it okayish. Not much to add, not really fun to play with.

16) Rigger (a): Same character without dynamite. Being able to choose items look better than nothing.

17) Peterman (n): Pretty boring character which make you open keypad and safe faster. Really situationnal already.

18) Rook (a): Rook advanced is extremely fun in 3/4 players games, but that doesn't look a good ability. You could pair it with advanced acrobat or similar to move the whole team above floors per example, or change the turn order, but overall that look pretty weak.

Thanks for reading, feel fre to give opinions or do your own list :)
Last edited by Romain672 on 13 November 2024, 05:49, edited 5 times in total.
haloalkene
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Re: Best and worst characters?

Post by haloalkene »

I have not played a single advanced characters at this point, so it is only fair if I comment on the basic ones. And after playing so many games with randomized characters, I've not once gotten acrobat :roll:

The worst absolutely has to be peterman. Their ability is too inflexible, limited to only when rolling the die at the safe or unlocking doors. What if your partner is the one with the keycard? What if your partner is in a more advantageous position to crack a safe? Then in all these scenarios, the character ability is essentially useless. Whereas for other characters, you find yourself using their abilities frequently, multiple times a game. Whenever I get peterman, I rarely find myself using the character's ability.

And I absolutely love to play hacker. Hacker gives me more confidence to move into a card without peeking, especially on the first floor when the risk of walkway is very low and you do not yet have any loot or tools. And of course with the ability hack multiple different types of alarms, you are removing quite a bit of restrictions in how you play the game.

Spotter is my second favorite. When I play spotter, I almost always use their ability to look at where the guard is headed next. Not necessarily to change the route of the guard but to look ahead and plan out where I can go or cannot go to avoid being trapped. And with spotter, you can use your ability everywhere, as opposed to say Raven where you can only put your crow in certain places or juicer where you can only set off alarms in relation to where you are. The downside is you have to use up one action.
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Romain672
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Re: Best and worst characters?

Post by Romain672 »

I think I know what I should do. Take 5 screenshots of situations with:
- one usual situation where everyone is safe
- one emergency turn with all tiles peeked at
- one emergency turn with few tiles peeked at
- one difficult safe
- one problematic situation (like foyer+deadbolt)

And see how well each character could manage all of those. That could be fun. If I find the time I will do it.

Re-looking at each character, it look like every one can do some things on some of those. Just the advanced peterman would not be great to talk about since it's a gamebreaking situationnal ability.
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raspberryoolong
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Re: Best and worst characters?

Post by raspberryoolong »

I find it hard to have a straight up ranking because some of the characters are better than others in specific situations but not in other situations, but this is a fun exercise. I'd also add that I'd also rank things different based on the setting we're playing on - for example, in hard one stealth mode, which is what I usually play on, I may find hacker advanced better than something like hawk due to the significantly added safety for all players, but if playing on normal 3 stealth, hawk is faster for exploring. Acro advanced would be better for speed esp for higher player counts, but normal acro might be safer in a 2p game.

1) Juicer (normal): extremely strong for safety, trapping the guard, and navigating tough floors
2) Hacker (advanced): free hack token makes things considerably safer for all players, esp good with more players, and reduces time spent hacking computer rooms 'in case'
3) Raven (normal): slowing the guard helps a lot for safety w/ multiple players on a floor or for upper floors
4) Acrobat (advanced): great for multiplayer games to explore quickly, increase safety of floor to avoid everyone stuck on 1st floor before stairs are found, for fetching gold, for enabling safer order of player escape
5) Acrobat (normal): great for difficult floorplans
6) Hawk (advanced): great for fast exploration
7) Hawk (normal): great for tougher floorplans
8) Rook (normal): being able to transfer moves to the upper floors or the floor that is behind in exploring, to players in danger, and going through stuff like deadbolts is valuable
9) Spotter (advanced): I prefer much more than the normal spotter; it's very valuable for safe event triggering or using specific events to get out of a pickle
10) Hacker (normal): imo the best character for a beginner to play and still can be quite useful & fast in exploring, especially on alarm heavy floors, but has the downside of not being able to trigger when needed
11) Raven (advanced): can stall the guard sometimes but less flexible than normal raven, as it's harder to predict if the crow will help
12) Juicer (advanced): much worse than the normal ability but still helps at times, esp with the chihuahua
13) Peterman (advanced): I actually really like the ability and it helps in some scenarios, but the character appears to be linked to some bugs here on bga so its utility might be warped
14) Rigger (normal): the free dynamite & tool choice can help but triggering detector can be a nuisance
15) Rook (advanced): helps in niche situations like fetching gold or swapping a better character or player with more stealth to a tough floor
16) Peterman (normal): helps on rare occasions with getting through keypad and cracking faster
17) Spotter (normal): I find the ability often a waste of an action as you can often just spend the action getting out of guard range, but it helps on some turns; also tends to get useless quickly as the patrol deck exhausts and guard speed increases
18) Rigger (advanced): I suppose it could be useful if you have a ton of stealth but not useful if you're playing on hard mode. at least there's the tool choice
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Romain672
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Re: Best and worst characters?

Post by Romain672 »

raspberryoolong wrote: 15 September 2024, 01:33
Strangly compared to Earthboundia, our ratings are much more similar: https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35372 , the only character where we disagree seem to be advanced Juicer (and I strongly believe she is strong but extremely hard to play).
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raspberryoolong
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Re: Best and worst characters?

Post by raspberryoolong »

Romain672 wrote: 15 September 2024, 02:13 Strangly compared to Earthboundia, our ratings are much more similar: https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35372 , the only character where we disagree seem to be advanced Juicer (and I strongly believe she is strong but extremely hard to play).
Interesting. I think advanced juicer has its utility, but it is limited due to:
* only being able to use one of the abilities per turn, which means we have less flexibility in reactively using an ability we hadn't been able to prepare for previously
* the ability of redirecting guard can help but also is unpredictable, so it may backfire
* only being able to set an alarm on the tile we're on, so unlike normal juicer we can't put it on a neighboring tile, which reduces the range of alarm redirection we can do to our limited movement
Overall, using the ability leads to faster patrol deck reshuffle, unlike the normal juicer which can prevent patrol cards from being drawn for much longer. Not that I need to convince you of the strength of the normal juicer :)
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Romain672
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Re: Best and worst characters?

Post by Romain672 »

raspberryoolong wrote: 15 September 2024, 09:55* only being able to use one of the abilities per turn, which means we have less flexibility in reactively using an ability we hadn't been able to prepare for previously
Yeah this require anticipation, but most of the time, not holding an alarm look better.
raspberryoolong wrote: 15 September 2024, 09:55* the ability of redirecting guard can help but also is unpredictable, so it may backfire
The point is to use it rarely. In a normal turn:
- if the guard don't goes next to you, you are fine
- if the guard move next to you, you can create an alarm and pick it up to see another patrol card
- if that other patrol card still don't please you, you can trigger another alarm and hope the guard move somewhere else

But I personnally use it like that (while not being extremely safe) only like two times per game, and only if I saw no other safe option.
raspberryoolong wrote: 15 September 2024, 09:55* only being able to set an alarm on the tile we're on, so unlike normal juicer we can't put it on a neighboring tile, which reduces the range of alarm redirection we can do to our limited movement
Yeah that part is annoying, especially if you try to setup infinite (ie make the guard do the same bad thing every turn like AXXGXXA with A=Alarm G=Guard and move 4+2)(which again is highly skill based).
The fact th'e guard will move next to you make it most of the time not great to be fully safe. This can be nice to use accross floors, or just to make the guard move the right amount (which can either be on the final alarm to see his next destination, or one tile before his last alarm to not draw a new patrol card, and make you able to create another alam to fully/mostly control the guard path while still not draw a new patrol card).
raspberryoolong wrote: 15 September 2024, 09:55Overall, using the ability leads to faster patrol deck reshuffle, unlike the normal juicer which can prevent patrol cards from being drawn for much longer. Not that I need to convince you of the strength of the normal juicer :)
While this is true, this is why too I try to avoid using the ability too much.
Picking the second alarm you trigger (which is usually awkward) don't draw a new patrol card, which can be nice if you want to have an alarm next turn. Especially if guard this turn will not reach the first alarm.

But in top of all of that, you got a lot of unique situations where that ability really do it's job:
- being able to move to detector and pick up the alarm: not many character will be great after a detector
- being able to pick a fingerprint alarm in the entrance of a floor
- re-try multiples time to change the patrol card of a floor by trigering an alarm picking it up and going to another floor even if it's extremely slow. Again many characters would not have that extra option
- being safe overall most of the time. Going to unknown tiles and knowing you can pick up an alarm can make it similar to the hacker in some point. You can even peek before deciding to pick up the alarm or not

Anticipating the next turn is primordial, knowing which options you will got, and make the guard end where it's fine. Per example is guard is 6 away from his destination and moves 3, then you know that he will end in his destination in two turns. While this is usually good since you will see his next destination, that could be bad because if he ends his turn in a red tile, you could have no way to pick up an alarm and change the following patrol card if that don't please you
If per example you are in a safe in a dead end after that destination. You could trigger the alarm and pick it up, see his next destination, and potentially use that alarm next turn to change the patrol card. Instead of taking the 1/X chance for the guard to goes to your safe.


None of everything I said is extremely strong (even picking up an alarm can rarely backfire), but the options available are massive.
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Earthboundia
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Re: Best and worst characters?

Post by Earthboundia »

The Rook Advanced is an interesting one. It's a character I never liked too much at first; it slowly grew on me overtime. Yes there are those niche, situations like the gold bar, but getting people out of danger, or getting a player somewhere better suited is where the Rook shines. Much like the basic Rook, it's strength is in propping the whole team up. Although I will say it really needs 3 or 4 players to work properly.
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