Why can't we vote on changes?

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avibobby
Posts: 6
Joined: 16 February 2022, 03:46

Why can't we vote on changes?

Post by avibobby »

How come every season comes about, the ELO calculations stay the same and frustrate a large chunk of players on here, and yet it's impossible to put up for a rule change vote? I don't understand. It's insanity to keep up the same rules if most regular players are frustrated by it
avibobby
Posts: 6
Joined: 16 February 2022, 03:46

Re: Why can't we vote on changes?

Post by avibobby »

We're going to have another season of ELO issues because of all the players trying for 3rd place. Yet most I talk to wish this rule bit would change. Why can't we at least discuss/vote on it simply?
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ufm
Posts: 1673
Joined: 06 January 2017, 08:38

Re: Why can't we vote on changes?

Post by ufm »

This has been discussed ad nauseam: https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewto ... 7&start=20
Waugapapa
Posts: 10
Joined: 04 January 2024, 05:10

Re: Why can't we vote on changes?

Post by Waugapapa »

I like how the answer is always “it’s been discussed”

Yeah, and nothing has changed.

Hearts has one winner, 3 equal losers.

Once people dump the queen to keep 3rd place on round three, it’s not hearts anymore.

Fix it, stop making excuses.
avibobby
Posts: 6
Joined: 16 February 2022, 03:46

Re: Why can't we vote on changes?

Post by avibobby »

Right?? I know it's been discussed. Awesome! Now how do we actually vote on changes rather than just saying "well, it was talked about before so it shouldn't be an issue anymore"

Like, what is the actual process for proposing a rule change that can get voted on? Why is that such a difficult thing to ask for? And then if people vote against it, cool, then I accept it and nothing changes. But we can't even see what people think? Because time after time in chats, people consistently agree that the current rule/ELO system for this game is not good!
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ufm
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Re: Why can't we vote on changes?

Post by ufm »

Waugapapa wrote: 25 October 2024, 15:26 I like how the answer is always “it’s been discussed”

Yeah, and nothing has changed.
And nothing will. End of story.
avibobby wrote: 01 November 2024, 18:31 Right?? I know it's been discussed. Awesome! Now how do we actually vote on changes rather than just saying "well, it was talked about before so it shouldn't be an issue anymore"

Like, what is the actual process for proposing a rule change that can get voted on? Why is that such a difficult thing to ask for? And then if people vote against it, cool, then I accept it and nothing changes. But we can't even see what people think? Because time after time in chats, people consistently agree that the current rule/ELO system for this game is not good!
Are you ignoring the last season's Arena poll on purpose? You are currently in the Hearts guru list.
This suggestion has been trounced already: https://imgur.com/a/E6cw4Il
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ufm
Posts: 1673
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Re: Why can't we vote on changes?

Post by ufm »

- There should be only a single winner!

Even now, there is only a single winner in each finished game (unless the first place is tied, obviously).
People don't call second place, third place, or second-to-last place a 'winner': https://boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=177077


- Second/third/... place should not be rewarded!

ELO is not a 'reward' but simply a skill indicator: https://boardgamearena.com/faq?anchor=faq_account_elo
Even if someone is a second/third/... place, their ELO can drop according to the system if the ELO gap is large enough.


- We played like this for years and all around us agree!

The same can be said for almost all public domain variants.
Also, credible sources (e.g. Britannica, Bicycle, Pagat) never say 'all non-winners are ranked the same' explicitly as you argue.


- This idea is better and more popular than the current system!

No, it is neither good nor popular at all.
For example, this suggestion got only 6 upvotes during 3.5 years: https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=13918
Note: The top record in BGA Hearts report is 46: https://boardgamearena.com/bug?id=16451
Besides, downvotes for BGA bug reports/suggestions do not exist yet, unlike other polls such as this: https://imgur.com/a/E6cw4Il
You can treat [100 - 50 - 25 - -10] to [1 - 0 - 0 - 0] in games with your friends as you wish.
However, many (if not most) players will disagree on 'who scored 50 did no better than who scored 25 or -10'.
And BGA Hearts will not adopt this approach as well.


All of these were discussed months or years ago, but you pretend not to hear. Well, whatever.
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Jellby
Posts: 1982
Joined: 31 December 2013, 12:22

Re: Why can't we vote on changes?

Post by Jellby »

BGA is not a democracy, and even in democracies not everything is decided by voting.

If you want something implemented, become a developer and do it. Otherwise, the developer decides what to implement.
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ufm
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Re: Why can't we vote on changes?

Post by ufm »

Jellby wrote: 02 November 2024, 09:19 If you want something implemented, become a developer and do it. Otherwise, the developer decides what to implement.
Usually, the publisher decides what to implement.
However, Hearts is a public domain game. In this case, you're right: the developer has the final say.
And I find no plausible reason to adopt this. As above, this idea is not even widespread. No need to open more cans of worms at all.
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Jellby
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Joined: 31 December 2013, 12:22

Re: Why can't we vote on changes?

Post by Jellby »

ufm wrote: 02 November 2024, 09:33 Usually, the publisher decides what to implement.
Even then, it's up to the developer to implement it or not :D
The publisher may request something, or revoke the license, or find another developer...
Still, there's no "voting" involved. Even with bug reports, where users can "vote" for some, the developer may take the votes into account, but they're free to ignore/reject high-voted reports and implement whatever they see fit (as long as they have permission).
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