Leaving Hanabi when things are not perfect

[bushbabe]

Hi gamers,

I have the following problem. It's a thing that's bugging me. When you play Hanabi some players want to quit the game when things don't go perfect or when the deck is a bit challenging. Just a minute ago I played Hanabi and the person I played with wanted to quit after a few minutes, because he made a mistake, which would make the maximum score 3 points less. I asked him if it was because of his ELO. He denied, telling me that he wanted to quit because he made a mistake. I think he's the exception. Some players only have a high Hanabi ELO because the leave games that don't go perfect. Also mistakes due to misunderstandings are a reason for some players to want to quit the game. Some are really aggressive. If you don't agree to leave the game they start bombing (play cards that are not playable). Trying to make you agree to leave the game that way.

My suggestions:
1. make a special rule that mutual agreement to leave a Hanabi game also results in an ELO penalty of 10 points. That way it's not interesting to leave the game to preserve their ELO.
2. For reporting players there should be an option to select that players sabotage a cooperative game on purpose. Now you can only select that they leave the game on purpose, but that's not really what happens. They force your to quit the game/sabotage the game. This is only reportable under miscellaneous, a category that is not reviewed as often as the other category's are.

Let's play and enjoy and don't quit games.
You don't walk away from a game in real life either (I hope).
If you do leave games: please don't play with me.

What do is your opinion about this?

Best regards,
Nance

[7decoeur]

I so agree! The system implemented is not fit for purpose in this game unfortunately.

There are so many players on BGA that seem wound up about their ELO points in hanabi; it is so comical. They get their inflated points via stealth and deception and refuse to play the impossible deals, which in my opinion are the most challenging and thus more satisfying. Give me a hard 27 over an easy eyes shut 30 any day! They seem to think not getting 30 makes a game boring and they no longer want to play and fire bomb out. That is just like waving a white flag when the going gets tough rather than rising up to a bit of problem solving.

It would be great if a new system were implemented, and that the ELO for hanabi reset to zero...I mean a master should be good enough to regain that level no probs. If you've done it once, right? Perhaps one idea for hanabi is as you say a -X ELO point fine for abandonments. yes, it would penalise someone that has to leave unexpectedly but that would be a one off docking and a few games would see you gain it back if you are not a serial offender. Those who abandon 1 in 3 or 4 games (this can be seen on a players profile - games played) however would be curtailed if the ELO points given out per game were sufficient (i.e. X/3 or X/4) to stop hyper-inflation in its tracks. And of course ELO would have to be mandatory for all hanabi games, no turning it off to bypass this.

[yourmove]

If I recall correctly in the face to face version talking is limited. I think really none is allowed but I may be wrong that it goes that far. Here on BGA I find about half the players sending me messages criticizing how I play and sometimes making suggestions which to me is gaming the game. i make mistakes yes but do some of you have to rub my nose in it!!!!! And I can tell you I find my "partners" making mistakes but I have NEVER sent a single derogatory note to them. I assume they are doing the best they can. I may shout at my computer screen but that is it. BGA says people should be reported who are rude and crude here. I for one feel it is rude to send negative messages to me. I am doing the best I can. My rating shows I am NOT an expert. Cut me some slack!!!!!!!!!!

[BigWhale74]

Hi,

I also experienced many games where a player suggested that we all leave the game.
Sometimes because some red tokens were gained, sometimes because some mandatory cards were thrown away, and even a time where a player was running out of time (on a turn-based game) and he himself suggested that we all leaved the game.
And once only so far I experienced a player bombing our game after I refused to quit the game.

We indeed have to find something to prevent this, because it's really painful when players want to quit after a few moves, because you will obviously not reach perfection.
Do these players quit competitives games when they see that someone's better than them? Of course not.
But here when the game is better than the players, it's ok for them to quit.
So I would be in favor of modifications of the rules for collaborative games (as a whole, not specifically Hanabi) so that players cannot quit without a penalty.
Note: for games where ELO is not activated, there's no need to use that rule since ELO is not active, of course. So I don't think you have to make ELO mandatory for Hanabi games.

Regarding yourmove's comment on in-game discussions (which deserves another thread in my opinion), I often confront other players when I believe they've not played as required to avoid mistakes. And I give excuses when I myself make mistakes (and it's much more often than I would like).
It might seem rude to some players, but I believe Hanabi is a game where the players' goal is actually to get better at every game, rather than winning a specific game. So it makes sense to me to confront people, and sometimes give advice. And I'm always willing to get advice from other players to improve myself.

[yourmove]

Playing should be fun. Not like work where one must do what the boss says even if you disagree. I find people too often are not making suggestions but rather giving me orders. I wish Hanabi could come up with a solitaire version so these self appointed coaches could only have to deal with themselves. It sometimes feels I should turn over my play to the other person with them giving me these pointers. Why play if someone tells you how to play and then gets mad if you don't do as they say. I understand Hanabi is a team game but I doubt people play to intentionally lose. Yes it might affect your score but then I would say to these do it my way players to pick on someone your own size and play with those who seem to have accomplished more by their ELO score. Then try telling THEM they are wrong and see where it gets you.

[kamatero13]

i agree.board games are not only for win.there are more important things in the real life than 100000000 elo rating

[CraWleR]

People have different definitions of fun. If you're not happy about it, you can just agree to abandon the game and not play with the person in the future. Entirely up to you.

Personally for me, when you discard let's say both copies of Green 2, the game becomes too easy and boring. In those situations I suggest abandoning games even if they are with ELO rating: Off

[Wreckage]

I think hanabi is the only game that needs a penalty for abandoning games. I will admit I abandon my share, mostly because the game is less fun to continue than starting a new one. I think a reset of the elo system and a penalty for abandoning is warranted, and would be generally popular (since I have heard so many players say it).

As far as players bombing on purpose if you refuse to quit the game....I dont do it, but I understand it. Why are you forcing someone to play who doesnt want to? In the real world they could get up and walk away.

[kamatero13]

all of you leave the hanabi table when things are not good cares only about elo.why force someone to abandon ?

[Green-eyed monster]

As far as players bombing on purpose if you refuse to quit the game....I dont do it, but I understand it. Why are you forcing someone to play who doesnt want to? In the real world they could get up and walk away.

And here they can walk away, too - with consequences for their reputation, which is only right. "Why forcing someone to play who doesn't want to" - but why forcing someone to leave the game who doesn't want to？

I also support penalty for mutually abandoning games, since doing so is breaking the system: like is was pointed above, it's the same as abandoning an opponent in a competitive game, but here the opponent is the game itself. I sometimes agreed to abandon a game when all the other players wanted to after mistakes, if I felt I made or caused a mistake and I thought they should not suffer because of me, but the other side of this is - it's not honest towards other players, who were not a part of this game. In hanabi you form a team, and yes, everyone will suffer or benefit from anyone's mistakes. If you're not satisfied with your teammates, you don't have to play with them again, but when you are in a team, anyone's mistake will affect everyone, that's what the team is. Being a part of a team is a risk that some people need to learn to accept.

As for reset of elo for hanabi - also good, but not as important.

Making ELO for hanabi compulsary will make it impossible to have learning games where you talk and give advice - which is really the only valid reason to have an ELO off game. Instead of it something like gradual decrease of ELO for those who haven't played a ELO on game for a while, can be implemented, so the players are encouraged to play games with ELO on if they want to preserve the rating they have.