Why is Arena Mode 4 players?

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Tisaac
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Joined: 26 August 2014, 21:28

Re: Why is Arena Mode 4 players?

Post by Tisaac »

Well dont play it then and wait next week for new season ?
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CaKtus
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Joined: 27 April 2020, 10:59

Re: Why is Arena Mode 4 players?

Post by CaKtus »

Tisaac wrote: 26 September 2020, 10:39 Well dont play it then and wait next week for new season ?
For sure. I did not play it. And I won't with 4 players.
The other question is why did they start the arena mode so close from the end of the season ?
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Tisaac
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Re: Why is Arena Mode 4 players?

Post by Tisaac »

CaKtus wrote: 26 September 2020, 10:47
Tisaac wrote: 26 September 2020, 10:39 Well dont play it then and wait next week for new season ?
For sure. I did not play it. And I won't with 4 players.
The other question is why did they start the arena mode so close from the end of the season ?
I'm almost sure that's automatic when the game is released.
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CaKtus
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Re: Why is Arena Mode 4 players?

Post by CaKtus »

Tisaac wrote: 26 September 2020, 11:05
CaKtus wrote: 26 September 2020, 10:47
Tisaac wrote: 26 September 2020, 10:39 Well dont play it then and wait next week for new season ?
For sure. I did not play it. And I won't with 4 players.
The other question is why did they start the arena mode so close from the end of the season ?
I'm almost sure that's automatic when the game is released.
Ok I understand then
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Cheery Dog
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Re: Why is Arena Mode 4 players?

Post by Cheery Dog »

Based on games released near the end of the previous season (ie Soluna), what happens in arena now is actually going to be counted towards season 3 results.
Poddster
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Re: Why is Arena Mode 4 players?

Post by Poddster »

On of the reasons I'm glad Kingdom Builder is on BGA is that a huge number of games will be recorded, which means we can have a definitive answer on how strong the first player advantage is in this game, or if it's more of a fourth player disadvantage etc.

Up until now it was mostly speculation based on people posting their own plays on BGG, which isn't good enough data :)
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paramesis
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Re: Why is Arena Mode 4 players?

Post by paramesis »

Poddster wrote: 29 September 2020, 13:35 On of the reasons I'm glad Kingdom Builder is on BGA is that a huge number of games will be recorded, which means we can have a definitive answer on how strong the first player advantage is in this game, or if it's more of a fourth player disadvantage etc.

Up until now it was mostly speculation based on people posting their own plays on BGG, which isn't good enough data :)
This is often suggested on the recurring threads that accuse BGA of skewing dice results. Unfortunately, any serious analysis of past games would have to be conducted by BGA. There isn't a framework supported way to extract a statistically significant number of replay logs. Trying to access too many in a short period of time will cause you to hit a limit, which has been mentioned in the forums here.

I didn't know about this limit before I attempted an analysis of the start player advantage of Kingdom Builder, and hitting this replay limit affects my ability to develop and address bug reports. I will make no further attempts to extract game logs. The best way to objectively measure the impact of turn order would be for the developer to create a table statistic, though I don't know how one accesses the aggregate table statistics. I created a thread on the Developers forum if anybody happens to know.

I was able to get 107 logs of 4 player games before I hit the limit. I have analyzed these reports and found the following:

Code: Select all

turn order: 1         average rank: 2.39252         average score: 47.2617        total wins: 32
turn order: 2         average rank: 2.3271          average score: 48.4953        total wins: 32
turn order: 3         average rank: 2.30841         average score: 48.1121        total wins: 33
turn order: 4         average rank: 2.69159         average score: 44.8972        total wins: 23
"wins" are defined as being in rank 1. The total number of wins adds up to more than 107 because if two players are tied for first, they are both rank 1.
This does demonstrate a notable disadvantage to being last in turn order in 4 player games. Interestingly, there seems to be a slight advantage to going second or third over going first. I'd be curious to see whether that still appears in a larger sample size.
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TheAncient001
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Re: Why is Arena Mode 4 players?

Post by TheAncient001 »

Going last in a four-player game is almost always a HUGE disadvantage. There is a tiny compensation for starting last when Lords is in play. I highly recommend 3-player or 2-player for arena.
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