I really like Love Letter except for one thing... GUARDS

[pookie_wocket]

I really like Love Letter. It is a rare game that sometimes even when I lose I am smiling, because of the clever way it happened. The game causes situations with fun plot twists and back stabs. I love this! Even when I am the one whose back got stabbed.

But there is one exception to this: the "Guard" mechanic. Being knocked out of a round because someone was lucky and guessed what card you have by pure chance sucks.

Of course sometimes another player will play the Guard against you because through careful observation they have figured out what your card must be. That is no problem. That is what the game is about! But all too often it is the first hand in the game, nobody could possibly know who has what, someone plays a Guard against me and guesses "Priest" and they got lucky, so I am out of the round. Without having done anything.

Then of course I have to sit there and wait. On some Love Letter games this will be a short wait. But I have definitely seen games where a round took 10+ minutes. All while I am sitting on the sidelines twiddling my thumbs because of bad luck.

I don't know what exactly could be done to fix this. But it is very frustrating. Does anyone else feel the same way??

[AlexBoston]

Being knocked out early (also possible with Baron, by the way) is more of a problem with the 5-8 player games. Generally I use my knocked out time in a 3-4 player game to observe how the other players play so that I have more player information for the next round.

But there is some strategy in a first round guard decision. For example, priests, barons, handmaids and princes are more common than the king, countess, or princess, so the first four are more likely to be guessed.

[Windfollower]

I think the issue here is with larger games. In the original game, without the expansion cards, with a maximum of 4 players the rounds were over like lightning. Sitting around was not a big deal, because you really didn't have to wait long, and you could watch what was happening. Now, things are more complicated and game play is slower.

[ArielFriedrichGauss]

I agree that this issue is a problem. Maybe there should be a rule banning the use of guards unless forced on the first turn of each round. For example, you can't play a guard on the first turn unless your other card is the priness, king, guard or baron.

[nairobiny]

I agree that this issue is a problem. Maybe there should be a rule banning the use of guards unless forced. For example, you can't play a guard on the first turn unless your other card is the priness, guard or baron.

This is a terrible idea. You just moved the problem elsewhere. Consider a player holding King who draws Guard. Under your rule, they may not play Guard, so they must swap with another player. Now that player not only has a Guard but also knows exactly what card the first player is holding...

If a player holds Priest, Handmaid, Prince or Countess (less than half the cards available) they are unlikely to want to play Guard, especially in an early round. So why force them not to? With so many moves in Love Letter being effectively scripted, it seems an odd decision to script even more of them.

[Usay Dress A H]

However, there is one good thing about the guard.
If you have a guard, you won't get knocked out by another guard.

[voriki]

However, there is one good thing about the guard.
If you have a guard, you won't get knocked out by another guard.

And it can knock out most people with help of a Dowager Queen.
Or with a Baron if the other person has a Jester/Assassin.
5-8 players games ofcourse.

[LambdaBG]

To defend the guard (I know this thread was made about a year ago):
Most players tend to not guess by pure luck even at the start of the rounds, they usually have perceived probabilities across the board. Also a consequence of early guessing is if there are really good players who keeps track of guesses, then they can deduce your own or other players hands even if you are succesful at it, basically you put yourself at risk. Obviously, its not always direct, and in a good table guards can be used to... well guard yourself from other effects by discarding. IE. pretending to have a different card.

Example:
Usually, a first round baron guard guess may indicate a low hand, it also may indicate that they do not have the hand themself, the probability of this increases when the targetted player has more points and the intent to KO them is definite. Again, on the bluffing/pretending side, this can be used to bait barons to target you by pretending to have a weak hand.

Another common one is to protect yourself from Barons by pretending to have a strong hand, ex. guessing Prince, or Dowager.

There are more examples that can go in more depth but imagine combining all these depth with multiple guard guesses. That would convey a lot of information about the table itself (it could tell if your opponent has tendency to bluff, or pose a strong hand as well)

Again, you might end up being too deep about this and realize that your opponent isn't playing to this strength, in that case don't stay on the trench. (their elo helps too, 100 elo players tends to be too direct)

----
I really didn't meant to make this a guide/how to but I wanted to explain how game knowledge of an entire table somehow eliminates luck although not by much. This game is still plagued by RNG lol.

[zoomboom]

I really like Love Letter. It is a rare game that sometimes even when I lose I am smiling, because of the clever way it happened. The game causes situations with fun plot twists and back stabs. I love this! Even when I am the one whose back got stabbed.

But there is one exception to this: the "Guard" mechanic. Being knocked out of a round because someone was lucky and guessed what card you have by pure chance sucks.

Of course sometimes another player will play the Guard against you because through careful observation they have figured out what your card must be. That is no problem. That is what the game is about! But all too often it is the first hand in the game, nobody could possibly know who has what, someone plays a Guard against me and guesses "Priest" and they got lucky, so I am out of the round. Without having done anything.

Then of course I have to sit there and wait. On some Love Letter games this will be a short wait. But I have definitely seen games where a round took 10+ minutes. All while I am sitting on the sidelines twiddling my thumbs because of bad luck.

I don't know what exactly could be done to fix this. But it is very frustrating. Does anyone else feel the same way??

How would it be we did this- If the player playing the guard guesses wrong, they lose that round. But make guessing optional for them.

[Xhabbo]

For me, a successful first turn blind guard guess is more satisfying than winning a round