Which is your favorite building and why? (4 players including expansions)

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Santa Maria
Posts: 25
Joined: 24 July 2015, 18:55

Which is your favorite building and why? (4 players including expansions)

Post by Santa Maria »

Intro: I play 4-player games exclusively, so it is meant for 4-player games

Note: 2, 3, 5 player games are different and the buildings are also of different value

Note: I play 'classical' games only, cause I am convinced that 'balanced' option breaks the strategic depth of the game



Which one is your favorite building and why?
What is your strategy with it?

Also which building do you never seem to make work?
Last edited by Santa Maria on 08 July 2023, 20:32, edited 1 time in total.
Santa Maria
Posts: 25
Joined: 24 July 2015, 18:55

Re: Which is your favorite building and why? (4 players including expansions)

Post by Santa Maria »

Library

My favorite building is Library.

It is very solid and provides a double bonus for whichever role you choose, so the bonus is always there, it is also very versatile, it synergizes with many buildings and gives you options.

The downside could be that it is quite expensive for a relatively minor bonus.


Lets look at the pros by role:

>>Mayor>>
- it gives extra colonist so you get 2 extra instead of one and paired with Villa you get 3 extra which can be huge for Fortress and Royal Garden play

>>Craftsman>>
- you can produce up to 2 extra barrels which can be very strong for Aqueduct-Large Indigo/Sugar Plant-Specialty Factory-Union Hall/Wharf combo, so you can produce up to 7 indigo/sugar barrels which give then 6 db (db=doubloons) for Specialty Factory and you get huge points from Wharf or Union Hall for shippin those
- Union Hall benefits a lot lets say you produce 2 corn and 1 indigo and 1 coffee, you can choose 2 extra so you produce 2 corn 2 indigo and 2 coffee with Library which then give 3 points from Union Hall, if you have Warehouse it can get out of hand quickly

>>Trader>>
- you get 2 db extra from your trade so paired with Markets can be a really big portion of db from a single trade

>>Settler>>
- you can choose 2 plantations, so if you have Forest House you can choose a quarry and a forest or 2 forests with one settler with major discounts on building, also it goes well with Residence and the Forest House play with Cloister

>>Builder>>
- here the bonus makes the required db amount for every building 2 less, and if paired with quarries/forests it can be a major discount
example: you have 3 quarries 6 forests and a Zoning Office, if you select the builder you can crank out a large building with havin 0 db in your possesion
- point is it is easy to build even with only 1-2 quarries

>>Captain>>
- you get 2 extra VP from your first shippin so the points may come handy and synergizes really well with Harbor

>>Prospector>>
- you get at least 2 db and sometimes 3 and very rarely even more and with those you have easier time to build


So what I like to do with Library is goin the builder route and get up to 3 quarries if possible also Forest House for 6 forests and if possible pair with Zoning Office to take db from prospector and try to crank out large buildings where the Church can also really help



Is it worth the price?

Sure the price is steep and you can say you could use the db better somewhere else, but if you have 2-3 quarries and a Zoning Office it can payout.
The earlier you get it the greater your benefit, so I dunno.
I usually try to build it, so to know for sure you have to try it out yourself.
Last edited by Santa Maria on 29 November 2020, 15:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Rooster6975
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Joined: 20 April 2020, 17:43

Re: Which is your favorite building and why? (4 players including expansions)

Post by Rooster6975 »

The best building in the game, hands down, is Forest House. Regardless of what other buildings are available, if you get a Forest House as your first building, you can win the game every time. It is so good, it is broken. We even had to house rule it out of the game because I would never lose. Even when I explained the strategy before the game started, I still never lost. If you combine it with Library, it is laughably good. If you add University, it is unbeatable.

The problem with Forest House is that it makes a Building strategy too fast. A shipping strategy cannot develop in time to prevent the FH from hitting the end game condition. I urge the doubters and naysayers to try it out because I have had this conversation many times in the past.
Here is the strategy :
- Your first building should always be Forest House. Activate it with the first colonist you can.
- Take Settler every turn if you can. If you get it first, grab a Quarry. If someone else selected it, grab a Forest.
- Build every single time anyone picks Builder. With a single Quarry + 2 FH, you get 2 off every building in the game, meaning there are a number you can get for free. 3 off if you are also Builder. Take anything available, it doesn't matter. I usually just take whatever I can get for zero coins so I can save for Library if it is in the game. But it really doesn't matter.
- If you cannot take Settler or Builder on your turn, take any role which gives you the most money regardless of whether or not you benefit.
- Your goal is to get 6 FH and 3 Q. You now cannot lose.

From this point on, take Builder at every opportunity. Every time you take it, you get 7 off every building from the 3rd or 4th tier, and most buildings cost nothing. It only costs 3 to build a 10-building, 2 if you also have Library. Usually by the time you can build a 10-cost building, you can start building one every turn until you have kicked off the end-game condition. You fill your 12 spots long before any shipping strategy can start to pay off.
Santa Maria
Posts: 25
Joined: 24 July 2015, 18:55

Re: Which is your favorite building and why? (4 players including expansions)

Post by Santa Maria »

I think you underestimate shippers.

Without support you need 9-10 rounds to get to 3 Q and 6 forests, in that time shippers will eat you alive.

Lets assume they have 1-2 corn each and 1 Indigo and 1 Sugar which is easy achievable and if 2 of them build Lighthouse and will craft and ship every round in 10th round they will have money to purchase Large building and will be sitting on 20+ VP for shipping. You will have what 6 VP at best.

And the game ends and you are dead last.


EDIT 1:
I have tried it and yes it is a possible play, but the player in seat before mine had Noble staffed Hunting Lodge and racked up 10 VP from my settler taking, so he ended up those 10 points ahead, but otherwise if you do it like you say you will loose and going in blindly as you suggest is suicide
Last edited by Santa Maria on 04 December 2020, 17:15, edited 3 times in total.
Santa Maria
Posts: 25
Joined: 24 July 2015, 18:55

Re: Which is your favorite building and why? (4 players including expansions)

Post by Santa Maria »

Specialty Factory

Another building I am trying out lately is Specialty Factory.


I think it can be really powerfull and is quite easy to set up.

You need 4 sugar or 4 Indigo plantations, buy both Small and Large appropriate production buildings and then the Specialty Factory (1-2 quarries help a lot) and to man it all you need 9 colonists.

Lets assume for Indigo you need 4 db (db=doubloons) for Small and Large Indigo Plant and then 8 for Specialty Factory thats 12 db. With 1 quarry you need only 9 db and with 2 quarries its 7 db.

In round 6 you can be set up and then the fun begins. With every craftsman you get 4-5 Indigo (or Sugar) barrels and maybe corn if you have some and 3-4 db on top of that. You can than ship for huge VP points and build at the same time, you don't need trader and can craft to no end.


Probaly need some Wharehouse and both 9 db buildings (Wharf or Union Hall) work great with it. In end you can then build a Large building as well.

Also very good with this is Aqueduct which boosts your production by 1 and you also get 1 more db. Library is good as well but that might be too much to be able to achieve.


What can go wrong

1. not be able to get to 4 Indigo / Sugar plantations

2. not having enough colonists

3. not have enough db to purchase Specialty Factory in time

4. not having Warehouse and on all 3 ships there is different goods


When it works though you can have ~30 VP and a very solid buildings score and 1-2 Large buildings as well. Your score will be around 60.



So if you want to know if Specialty Factory is that good try it out yourself.


EDIT 1:
Specialty Factory also works with Tobacco (with 3 Tobacco plantations), it is a harder that only 3 Tobacco barrels can be produced (or 4 if you craft, 5 with Library), so you get a bit less db and a bit less VP for shippin, but it is easier to secure a Tobacco ship cause Tobacco not that easy accessible for other players and you will have more powerful Tobacco trades to set it all up.
Last edited by Santa Maria on 05 November 2021, 21:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Rooster6975
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Re: Which is your favorite building and why? (4 players including expansions)

Post by Rooster6975 »

I was actually hoping someone would reply to my FH post. Try it out, no one can get a shipping strategy going in time to counter it. I've played "live" with players who have joined tournaments at conventions, and it works every time. I've even explained the strategy to other players before we play, and it still works. The only counter I have ever found for it is to take the other Forest House and then it becomes a race between 2 players to finish their tableau before the other. The shippers are left in the dust.

For the most part, you don't even have to be careful about what you do. Take Settler whenever it is available in order to get Quarries, otherwise take a FH when someone else takes it. Take Builder as the next choice, if available. Playing against very experienced players, if they start to work together against me, then I have to make more of an effort by taking strategic buildings. There are many which play directly into the strategy; Black Market which can give an extra 3 coins to buy better buildings, Library to double your build privilege (2 off) and also double your Settler privilege (take 2 plantations and make them both Forests), Hacienda which allows you to take 2 plantations, and Land Office which allows you to take a plantation during the Trader phase (as a FH). If you also get Construction Hut, it's ridiculous. You can get 2 Quarries in a single turn. Even without Construction Hut, if you combine FH + Lib + Hacienda, you can get 3 Forests in a single turn. That was originally not allowed in the expansion rules, but is explicitly allowed in the Noble rules. 3 Forests in a single turn is ridiculously overpowered and just nukes any shipping strategy.

The only time I have come close to losing using this strategy is when we deliberately removed all buildings which were helpful to the strategy; no Hacienda, no Library, no Construction Hut. I still won, but it was very close. I had to go against my own strategy on one turn in order to take Mayor to get a bonus doubloon and 3 settlers in order to occupy my recently purchased buildings. It doesn't take 9 or 10 turns to complete your 3Q+6FH, there are simply too many other buildings which play into the strategy. You can fulfill the end-game condition long before a shipper strategy comes into play.
Santa Maria
Posts: 25
Joined: 24 July 2015, 18:55

Re: Which is your favorite building and why? (4 players including expansions)

Post by Santa Maria »

Church

My special building is Church. A cornerstone of every builder strategy (when in play).

So why do I like it so much?

The reason is I am a builder and with Church you are allowed to completely ignore shippin, cause Church will provide a few and necessary VP chips.

As builder you always want to build out asap, so Church should be your 3rd or 4th or 5th or 6th build the latest. Cause you will build out it then provides 9 or 8 or 7 or 6 VP chips which will help you a lot cause you will not ship much otherwise.
I usually build it as 4th or 5th build, cause it does nothin for you in terms of development, by building it you only get a solid portion of points. So it is as a Large building providin 7-8 VP and 2 for Church itself so it gets you about 10 points for a very reasonable price. Usually it is best to pair with 2-4 quarriess and maybe some other discount so you don't bleed out building it.

Church is only as strong as your speed and ability to build out. Usually you need 2-3 Large buildings and maybe some filler builds for points.

The most important for Church is speed to build out as in Heroes of Might & Magic III analogy:"On the battlefield Speed is Life and Life is Speed."
You need to build out and build out fast.

Good indicator of how fast you build out is how many VP chips are still in pool.
If there are 60+ VP in pool and you build out you probably win easily.
If there are 40+ VP left in pool you have a chance.
If there are 20- VP left in pool you are loosin and probably loosin badly.

If you don't build out then Church might not be the building, cause if you build just 1 Large building and 1 small building after Church (which you still need to be able to afford) you get 3 VP chips out of it, so it is 5 point for 5 db. Those 5 db probably could be better invested, but it still might be worth it. Usually it is not though cause it may slow you down tremendously for Large building and or other more usefull builds.

I have seen it being built late for a few points, but I think it is best when built right after early game and get the full 7-8 VP chips out of it.

If you are a shipper building Church is very questionable at best.
Or is it?
Santa Maria
Posts: 25
Joined: 24 July 2015, 18:55

Re: Which is your favorite building and why? (4 players including expansions)

Post by Santa Maria »

Trading Post

Another building I like a lot - Trading Post.

It is a very reliable source of income and can provide db to build out.

Even if it does not work with Markets (they are not activated when trading to Trading Post) if paired with Coffee provides 4 db which is solid.

It kind of only works with high end goods (Tobacco and/or Coffee), best with Coffee. Does not matter if other players have Coffee or if Trading House is full or blocked you can always trade and get the 4 db, only danger is that you will be forced to ship your Coffee and so have no Coffee to trade.

Another advantage is you can always leave the Trading House partially full or blocked, so other players are unable to trade and so will have hard time to get to trade income.
With Trading Post you can always trade so you will get db to build.

Cons
- you need 1-2 quarries to be able to purchase Coffee roaster and Trading Post with speed, without a single quarry it might be tough
- it can be problematic to set up Coffee and the Trading Post cause both are not cheap and if player seated before you also gets Coffee you might find yourself in trouble to have no source of db to actually purchase the Trading Post with speed
- also if you want to build out you need some kind of discount, cause 4 db want get a Large building fast enough

But if you have some discount and other income supporting building it can be very strong and provide you the much needed db to build.

It is very reliable and very solid play, but sometimes can be too slow.

Try it out and see how your trade income flows with ease.
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zoozoc
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Joined: 10 September 2022, 06:09

Re: Which is your favorite building and why? (4 players including expansions)

Post by zoozoc »

Just played a game with construction hut + zoning office seems like a very OP combination. Getting -5 or -6 off of 10 point buildings is super strong as you can end the game very quickly with the double buildings and rack up a bunch of points.
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