strange games

[999IF]

In fact, that's what keeps me from playing. BGA should react.
Maybe just removing the turn-based game from Arena mode is enough, but I'm not an expert.

[RicardoRix]

I think there is one other method that could be considered: Directly changing the game database tables.

So you might be able to predict the RNG *somehow* but that doesn't allow a long string of dice roll success, only that you know exactly when to bail out.

So the alternative is to manipulate the RNG somehow.... this is code running server side and seems impossible to manipulate. It's possible that the server does not validate the input correctly from the client choosing which set of dice, but this seems very unlikely and you would see discrepancies between the dice rolls and the actual columns they are climbing. I'm going to assume no-one has seen this, so this can't be true either.

But changing the DBTables might be possible. You can do it in BGA Studio, even enough to try and master it. The state of the game is all there stored in the DB, this seems the most likely possibility. Some of the DB tables are common between games, for example every game has a global, gamelog and players table.
BGA Studio even has a button to save the game state, so some analysis of the tables after a move would allow the hacker to see exactly what gets changed in the DB for a move.

BUT Can't Stop is not published in BGA Studio, but the code at least may possibly be available somewhere. Even then it may not be necessary, direct DB access could be enough. How they could get DB access.....not sure.

[Ranior]

I just noticed this issue and dove in on this players games. They've just recently gone on a flurry of activity again to shoot up this arena's standings.

The results are totally impossible. It is clear from looking at the dozens of games that there is cheating going on. I'm with everyone else that it is baffling how they are doing it, but they are irrefutably cheating to get these results. I know the Can't Stop forums are littered with clueless players complaining about the RNG and how things are rigged and they're all crying wolf, but Dorte's games are in another category. They have dozens of games and an uninterrupted string of luck, it is totally impossible to do what they are doing without some sort of cheating.

What that exact cheating method is, the only thing I think I can say with certainty is that it must take some time. It is not an accident all of these games are turn based and Dorte takes many hours total to win them. I suspect whatever this cheating method is that it cannot work in real time.

It does seem they purposefully bust some turns and/or stop just to put on a veneer of plausibility instead of just winning, but like every third turn or so they just get on three numbers and ride them to a game win. That's an absolutely absurd and unsustainable rate, yet they somehow do sustain it--which is why they absolutely must be cheating.

I can't imagine the cheating method involves knowing what rolls are coming next--if that was so, I don't think they could consistently knock out game winning turns like they are. There would be a lot more situations where you'd see them stopping and having to finish columns out on other turns, not getting back on the right columns, etc. The cheating method almost has to involve manipulating the die results to be what they want, just really interesting how they are able to achieve that.

[beliwan]

Maybe Dorte can be forced to tell how they do it. They may keep their account, but the problem can be solved then and we, those who are desperately looking for the way of cheating, know how the did it

[frogstar_A]

I agree it must be the case that they are fixing the rolls - maybe not every turn but on the winning turn.

Hopefully this Can be reported as cheating? How do you do that?

[Ranior]

I agree it must be the case that they are fixing the rolls - maybe not every turn but on the winning turn.

Hopefully this Can be reported as cheating? How do you do that?

I couldn't find a way to do it through the usual reporting system so I sent in a report of cheating with multiple accounts and explained in the details what was actually happening. BGA doesn't seem to have this sort of cheating as one of their standard reporting options--and frankly that's probably fine since I'm not sure I've ever heard or seen of this form of cheating before so why should there be any standard option to report it.

Even if there was, based on the other threads we get in the Can't Stop forums over time, there are far too many users that don't really understand stats and probability and would probably spam with too many reports of fixed games or die rolls or whatever. This is a pretty unique case.

[beliwan]

I couldn't find a way to do it through the usual reporting system so I sent in a report of cheating with multiple accounts and explained in the details what was actually happening. BGA doesn't seem to have this sort of cheating as one of their standard reporting options--and frankly that's probably fine since I'm not sure I've ever heard or seen of this form of cheating before so why should there be any standard option to report it.

Keep us posted!

[Een]

We looked into this and didn't find anything fishy:
- the code is sound as far as we can see (managed server side)
- usage patterns have nothing abnormal (no weird requests, no unusual frequency)
- manipulating the database directly is not possible (except by breaching our servers) and in case of a loss the turn goes directly to the other player and notifications are sent immediately, so changing anything would cause glitches visible by opponents and/or in replays.

It does seem they purposefully bust some turns and/or stop just to put on a veneer of plausibility instead of just winning, but like every third turn or so they just get on three numbers and ride them to a game win.

Please read yourself again. You have already decided on guilt.

If that person had double the Elo of everybody else or never lost any game (she does), it would look really impossible, but that's not the case.

Of course it's really hard to prove a negative, as you well know, but we have seen nothing indicative of foul play. In luck based games, a bold strategy sustained by luck can get you a long way. As for the fact that she sometimes rolls extra to finish a row while she has already won, some people are just flashy/daring for the extra kick, and it's in the spirit of gambling especially when you're lucky to want to see if your luck holds.

Anyway, probably not the last thread we see on BGA about "impossible luck" or "impossible bad luck"

[simonbe]

lol
It's clear this player plays very suboptimal, and then winning 2 season in a row that just doesn't happen :p
But its a nice case to solve how she does it indeed

[Ranior]

I have read myself again, but I determined that guilt from watching a lot of their games and reading others conclusions in this thread as well--it's cheating.

Of course you'll get more reports from people that don't know what they're talking about complaining about the randomness in this game, that's part of the fun of the Can't Stop forums. This is on another level--in all those other forum threads many smart people chime in and explain to those players why they are mistaken, how common what they are looking at is, etc. This claim is in a whole separate galaxy and the fact you're comparing the two suggests to me you don't get it.

I am glad to hear you at least analyzed possibilities of cheating and haven't come up with what could be going on though. I guess we'll just have to all move along and accept that cheating can happen on this site as long as you do it in a game with randomness since the problem with randomness is you can never be absolutely sure it is cheating--it could just be great luck. For this run of Dorte's to be luck is so inconceivable, I could have a million players make the same moves for decades and not go on runs like Dorte has, but alas it technically could happen. I think the most clear sign Dorte is cheating though is that Dorte NEVER busts on those wild turns where they have capped some column and keep rolling on others. In those positions your bust percentage is pretty high, but that's never when Dorte runs in to busts.

The further part of what is so unbelievable and makes me certain there is cheating is that Dorte's strategy during this run is highly indicative of cheating. In one game they start on 5, 6, 7 and run it for a pretty standard amount of progress and wisely stop. The next turn they pop on 7, 8, 11 which is an even worse combo to roll on and decide to just take it all the way to the win capping those 3 columns.

Another game sees them have two poor opening turns before popping on a 3,6,7 combo that they ride to the win. Including a turn where they have 6 and 7 capped and decide to roll the 3 and get it of course. Again this could be absurd luck, but it becomes absurdly suspect when you cannot find any examples of Dorte busting in these positions where busts are very common.

This game https://boardgamearena.com/gamereview?table=216274931 sees Dorte behaving like a normal Can't Stop player for the first few turns, making reasonable progress and stopping, and then again suddenly a turn where they wind up on columns they have almost no progress on and just ride it to a win. What makes Dorte decide to go on wild game winning runs some turns and then other turns play so differently, and why does Dorte not ever see big busts in positions like this where they should? Again you ask me to believe it simply is a risky strategy that Dorte is getting very lucky with--lucky enough to have been seen in this same pattern of winning almost every game with this wild strategy last season and now this.

Here is another table that's very suspect: https://boardgamearena.com/gamereview?table=214290658. Again in isolation perhaps you could accept Dorte just gets very lucky to be able to roll a lot of 4's in a row to win the game after already capping 2's and 3's that turn, but when taken in totality this gets incredulous to believe there is no cheating going on. How does Dorte never bust in positions like these where the bust odds are so high on each roll? Again one game sure, but there is literally a string of 30 of these games in a row where Dorte loses only one and otherwise is just winning the rest in this fashion.

I'll let you make that claim since technically randomness allows for anything to happen, but it is really hard to buy that Dorte isn't cheating somehow based on their results and play. I think by far the clearest indicator that Dorte is cheating remains this: If Dorte caps a column, they NEVER bust on continued rolls. I just watched like 30-40 of their most recent games and I could not find a single instance of such a thing, yet they roll in that precarious position very often.